Re: What brings me to the vampirism forum.

[Maxx]

I tried to listen to some more of your buddy Steiner this weekend... material is ok until he gets into the religious stuff again.  Christ and Jesus...he actually presents there were two of them, and his description of the book of John does not connect at all.  lol.  He is worse than a Christian trying to quote the bible to prove the Bible is real.  Does not work at all.  

My own view is that if one has gotten caught up in any kind of religion they are at a point where they have to open their eyes to see there is a higher step up from there before they will see an advancement.

Since you are Catholic, that is fine, everyone is at the point in their life where they are exactly where they should be at the moment.   I grew up in a Catholic school early in life.  lol.  But Steiner would be laughed out of any religious movement today, but just my views. Much of the other stuff I enjoy.

[Maxx]

As far as this Jesus fellow, in Greek his name is Eusses. In Arabic his name is Issa. But in the original Persio-Aramaic his name was Izas. Because Jesus was King Izas of Edessa - a real king with a real (but small) kingdom.

[Maxx]

This is why I say that you can proclaim you have records.  To me, that does not mean too much as they, if they truly exist, are not connected to a real person described in the account story in the Bible.  Steiner speaks about the metaphysical side of the crucifixion as if all the stories in the bible are actually happening....NOT.  The Romans kept very accurate records of the time and they have no one turning the countryside upside down doing miracles and raising dead people.  If it had happened there would certainly have been this in the records and the report back to Caesar about this Jesus guy.   Sorry, I really think a bunch of people have been had by the priesthood with Christian writers putting out a complete spin on this stuff for control purpose.

[Lightseeker]

As far as this Jesus fellow, in Greek his name is Eusses. In Arabic his name is Issa. But in the original Persio-Aramaic his name was Izas. Because Jesus was King Izas of Edessa - a real king with a real (but small) kingdom.

Honestly, I think these attempts to just equate Jesus with other historical figures like this is totally unfounded and senseless speculation. Were in the Bible is there any hint of this association?

As for "Issa", the Koran just re-interpreted existing Christian doctrine (especially of the Nestorian variety) in the region according to Mohammed's wish to found a new sect.

[Lightseeker]

TSteiner speaks about the metaphysical side of the crucifixion as if all the stories in the bible are actually happening....NOT.  [...] Sorry, I really think a bunch of people have been had by the priesthood with Christian writers putting out a complete spin on this stuff for control purpose.

Steiner very clearly emphasizes that the crucifixion is to be understood as a historical AND a metaphysical fact. In fact (and perhaps also of interest from a vampiric point-of-view) he stresses the importance of Jesus's blood being shed on Golgotha.

As to your argument with the priesthood, whether or not this is the case you have to admit that keeping any organisation running world-wide for almost 2000 years is certainly impressive enough in itself

[Maxx]

As I always state, the Bible does not prove the Bible. There are so many stories in it that just do not add up with actual facts. There are no actual facts to prove the Jesus guy. It is counterfeitly composed over years and years and added to make one big jolly roger adventure.
As I say, everyone is certainly free to believe anything as long as it makes them feel comfortable but it is a shame to present it as being a workbook being truthful word for word. And all those years keeping it together, it is like a circus with trained entertainment. If you keep practicing it, over time you get better at it producing the results, whether factual or not.

[Maxx]

and all deeds are actually happening and at the same time, it is metaphysically happening...you can describe me typing this in the metaphysical as It is factually happening. lol.

[Lightseeker]

As I always state, the Bible does not prove the Bible.  There are so many stories in it that just do not add up with actual facts. There are no actual facts to prove the Jesus guy.  It is counterfeitly composed over years and years and added to make one big jolly roger adventure.

And as I keep saying (and you keep ignoring) the historicity of facts isn't really that relevant to understand the Christ or the Christic current.

[Lightseeker]

and all deeds are actually happening and at the same time, it is metaphysically happening...you can describe me typing this in the metaphysical as It is factually happening.  lol.

Agreed. Actually everything happens at the same time - at least in the realm of the Godhead. Things here on earth just appear to be happening in time and space due to our limited 3rd-dimensional view. For the awakened individual, past and future collapse into one eternal moment of "to BE".

[Maxx]

lol. that is about all we can agree on about your religion.

[Maxx]

"facts are not important to understand the Christ current...."  lol.   To base a religion on something that did not happen is very important.  It certainly tells the population they have been lied to.  You keep ignoring my main point.  That the crucifixion was described as happening in only a metaphorical way to point out a metaphysical fact is sick.  Is that how you see your catholic mass every time you go for another crucifixion?  

A person was certainly crucified back in history but it was not the person described from the Bible.  And the reason took place because he was rebelling and leading a small army against the Romans as he wanted to become Caesar... not die for humanity.    The whole damn thing has turned into a lie in order to create a means to control a population and as well as create a money machine for the priesthood.

[Lightseeker]

"That the crucifixion was described as happening in only a metaphorical way to point out a metaphysical fact is sick.  Is that how you see your catholic mass every time you go for another crucifixion?

I don't really understand what you are saying here, I never said that the crucifixion only happened methaphorically, but that it ALSO points out a methaphyscial fact. Both aspects are clearly present in the Catholic Mass (as well as in Steiner's writings). What I don't understand is why it is so hard especially for many students of vampirism or the occult in general to see the great significance of Christ's blood being shed, even if only as a metaphysical fact. Don't you see the parallels? Blood is life and gives life. So basically, divine blood gives divine life....

[Maxx]

yes. I see the other dimension aspect of a Christ Consciousness.....but how it becomes a great big story where people believe it actually took place.....when the actual physical never happened. I am unable to see how you cannot see this...

People are programmed to believe this was an actual, physical happening. I say there was no such thing. That has nothing to do with etheric creations or putting it together in the thought creation area......but the damn thing never took place. lol.

[Lightseeker]

yes. I see the other dimension aspect of a Christ Consciousness.....but how it becomes a great big story where people believe it actually took place.....when the actual physical never happened.  I am unable to see how you cannot see this...

Honestly, with all due respect, I think this discussion has reached a point where we are going in circles lol. I don't think anyone can prove that this event either took place or did not take place with any kind of certainty. You can point out materials in support of that it didn't, I can point out materials in support of that it did. You won't be persuaded by my arguments, and I won't be persuaded by yours. Why? Because, ultimately, it is a question of faith....

[Lightseeker]

And at some point of time you must have also believed it was a physical occurence, seen that you said you were once a Christian minister.

[Maxx]

yes. I was programmed like all the dense folks and told I need to have faith...until I decided to do an investigation at which point I found it was fake. That is my story.

[Maxx]

As far as your story and the ancient records you say your group has, it does not sound like they can be that accurate.  If those that translated the dead sea scrolls, as well as the Nag Hammadi texts,  refuse to release all of it in their entirety because they say it would destroy the Christian faith as everyone would see what it really says, then I do not put much "faith" in the records you claim your group has.

I do not believe you have been successful here in convincing everyone you are from a real watchers group.  If this is your test, to convince us, I believe you have failed.  lol. But you are welcome to continue...

[Lightseeker]

 If those that translated the dead sea scrolls, as well as the Nag Hammadi texts,  refuse to release all of it in their entirety because they say it would destroy the Christian faith as everyone would see what it really says

Again, that is pure speculation. You'd find just as many documents that would do the opposite. Admittedly, some aspects of the Christian faith would change (maybe towards a more "gnostic" approach), but that isn't necessarly a bad thing, is it?

I do not believe you have been successful here in convincing everyone you are from a real watchers group.  If this is your test, to convince us, I believe you have failed.  lol.  But you are welcome to continue...

Hahahahahahah. I had to laugh so much when I read that. No, that isn't my test lol. But maybe I should suggest that to my superiors: "If I manage to convince Maxx that I'm real, then you'd better give me a promotion!"

Btw, how would you define "real" in general and "a real Watchers Group" in particular?

[Maxx]

if that would be your test.....you will never become a full member. I do not believe any one of us here except one...and that one is so naive.... he is not even sure it is him looking back in the mirror each morning, believe what you are telling us any more.

Just have faith... is not a winner here like it would be out in the general population.

Or the second best...ha.... Just trust me....that is a real big winner.

[Maxx]

You have not convinced me the group is even there now. It appears it does not have any power at all any way to keep a balance within the world. lol. Unless it operates from another dimension, it could not produce results anyway.

[Lightseeker]

You have not convinced me the group is even there now.   It appears it does not have any power at all any way to keep a balance within the world.  lol.  Unless it operates from another dimension, it could not produce results anyway.

Well, my mentor did tell me that our Elders "work from both sides of the grave", make of that as you will

And again, the same question: What would you define as "results"? Major changes, influencing popular opinion, infiltrating the orders, going public.....? It all depends on the viewpoint.

[Lightseeker]

Just have faith... is not a winner here like it would be out in the general population.

I never said that in regard to the existence of the Watchers, only in regards to the question of Jesus' factual existence. The existence of the Watchers is well documented and could be proven to the public at any time if the Council so desired.

[Lightseeker]

You know btw, Maxx, I really appreciate you being here. Even when I used to be just reading along here, I always thought this forum would be somewhat dull without you It's a pity though that Victor doesn't drop by here sometime, he seems to know quite a lot about the inside work of our group.....

[Lightseeker]

And I'll be honest with you here, I don't (yet) know everything about my own Group. For example, I have only a vague idea who (or maybe even "what") our Elders - being the leaders of the Watchers Council - really are. The fact that I can contact them on the astral plane though (using a special "communion ritual" I learnt from my mentor) seems to indicate that they are perhaps beyond the step of being mere mortals or are at least very highly developed individuals when viewed from an occult perspective - maybe somewhat comparable to what the Golden Dawn referred to as its "Secret Chiefs", but that is really just my personal speculation.

[Maxx]

keep going....  I overview it to mean you are interjecting snippets purposely given here to enhance a larger involvement of your personal area with your group...which is interesting btw.  

Based on what I have personally seen, I do not understand the requirement of a worldly ritual to contact anyone.....  Just a calm mental contact is even a better telephone pole contact like Oliver on Green Acres calling anyplace to this world or another...  Arnold Ziffel can reach anyone.

Agreed on Victor assessment...  but it appears he does not want much info on specific matters broadcast out and prefers to let individuals do their own research to find big answers.  That certainly is the case with Maktub. Even the books released from the Aset Ka really are not a treasure trove of unknown info....lol.

smiling....!!!!!

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