Manifesting the Adversary

Within Asetianism there is a strong archetype of the adversary, manifesting as opposers. In my understanding this is a truth which challenges untruth. Defiantly opposing the rigidities and weaknesses of ego manifested from a stagnant society, raising a challenge for those that by their limitations seek to impose limitations upon others or manifest dishonor...

... However, as to my understanding, this notion might easily be mistaken and we can see people who act by that notion, albeit mistakenly, to think that it entails going towards personal assaults and counting that as being adversarial. To me that act itself only shows a level of weakness, insecurity and pretentiousness within themselves, as for the lack of maturity upon handling things calmly and with a sense of nobility, instead choosing to forfeit their dignity and stoop to a low level of passive aggressiveness or outright insult.

What are your thoughts upon this?

Yes.  Certainly.  Have you ever met a really smart stupid person?
I bet you know some...  The reason people can be smart and stupid is that KNOWLEDGE MAY MAKE YOU "SMART" BUT IT IS THE APPLICATION OF THAT KNOWLEDGE, WHICH IS WISDOM, THAT ALLOWS YOU TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS.  Wisdom, an action of application, is not always witnessed among the intellectuals.  Knowledge is the foundation --- and wisdom is how you build on that foundation.

To use your illustration "to me" in like manner, I will say...

"To me" in many cases, I would attest that the person might never have been made aware of the details which seem to be in opposite duality from one person to another unless this tactic had been instituted. It appears the possibility exists that person would never have had the opportunity to grow without it. Just pulling one out of their comfort zone might be the only way they would have seen it, to begin with.

Do you see how that might apply to your question???

I do see your point.

Maxx, what would you say about that statement in and of itself, however?

which statement do you want me to focus on?

The second paragraph in total.

the second one includes the word "maturity," as in degrees of the view of any single individual.  When you look at that it can only mean that person using that word views themselves at a certain point of elevation and would more than likely consider a vantage point of looking down on something.  Do you agree or disagree?  I have posted a week or two ago that I see there is no standard human mode of operation and that each one of us is totally different, in action, thought, looks, soul, expression, etc.  But common sense should be a viewpoint all should strive for.  Is that a common attribute or not?  If you, yourself, saw a lack of any common sense materializing, according to your first quote, would your only action result in a series of grand noble actions in telling that person they might be inaccurate....or would being out of nobility with your actions cause their sensibilities to be pricked to the point you would feel uncomfortable about it. Again, no one feels the same or acts the same.  To some, common sense to them would just be quick and to the point like "get your ass in gear and wake up, dammit.  I do not have time to baby your ass as you have already declared yourself to be from the higher echelon.  Besides, that would not be as stylish as the nobility notification flavor but actually, have a stronger meaning in SOME ways.  

Connecting my reply above in some semblance to that, I see how so many are attaching their personal situation to be the center point of every confrontation they experience in their life.  Hell, myself, I learned long ago that everyone I meet, or for that matter, everyone that meets me, will not be Sweet Caroline.  Do you think that life was supposed to be that everything comes up roses for each of us in everything that we do or that we are confronted with?  Conflict is a part of change, and change is the only thing that is certain.  One important lesson that I see most everyone lacks including myself at times, is to have control over the mental process where any uncomfortable situation does not overcome one to the point of growing larger than that person viewing it.  When that takes place, that person has turned over control of their life to another.   Hence, the difference between Knowledge and Wisdom.  Also, Experience should be part of that picture for without experience added to the previous two, there is no Wisdom that can grow.

For myself only, I can add that comedy and laughter at all things enables me to find a more acceptable balance for my own life.  That might make some others very angry or unhappy, but they are not experiencing all I am seeing or aware of on several dimensions.  Most of the time, I can see that they have not the slightest desire to improve or make improvements in their life to meet those other dimensions.  They make no attempt as they feel they are at a high point in their life as it is.  I use the Christian as a prime example.   From first-hand knowledge, I know there is simply no polite way to tell someone they have dedicated their entire lives to an illusion.  This is also my view as to the OVC crowd who follow the illusion of grandeur in that they are a special breed of being and are a vampire... I see these two lives as wasting their opportunity.
Of course, I ask no one to agree with me.  All I ask is that they figure why they think the way they do.  If real investigation would take place, revelation might succeed in breaking the barrier of such mental fog.

And one question I failed to ask regarding that second paragraph is this... Do you think that every case that might be disturbing to that person could be handled in the same way that is shown in your example and have a great and positive result take place from using that method?

Good Lord, Man.  I see you left and went to bed in Sweden.  Just because it is 4 am there does not mean you can just pass out at any time from exhaustion..  lol

So to continue on the theme of my reply regarding Wisdom.  

Wisdom is not always recognizable to the intended audience.  So, that is where a compelling concept would come into play.  IMPORTANT: You must condition your intended recipient to receive the intended Wisdom.  The Christian will tell those they cannot convince and ask questions back that they will not "Cast their Pearls before Swine".  In order for the intended recipient to appreciate what you are going to tell them, they must have been shown there is more than one problem in everything and that this may not be the final problem that will materialize.  (Actually, they do need the stated common sense to be able to see this.)  Don't let that audience become a pig by throwing knowledge into the mud so they can trample on it.  One has to prepare them to receive Wisdom.  

So do what is necessary.  Clean your pig up.  Put some lipstick on it.  Give it training (pigs are very smart with some guidance), and what will happen is that more often than not, with belief, enthusiasm, and confidence your pig will suddenly wake up and it will be worth it all.  

Thanks for reading!  Oink, Oink.

Mystic. this goes far in condensing my wording...

"Let us learn to accept life for exactly what it is. Life is problem and pleasure, joy and sorrow, health and sickness, success and reverses. Life is having some things the way you want them, and some things you did not want. Life is gain and loss. Life is a sequence of patterns and relationships which we must adjust to each day; and the adjustments of yesterday are seldom sufficient now." — Manly P. Hall, To Carry Burdens in a Gracious Spirit, 1970, p.7

Ok, Maxx, I have been thinking about what you were trying to tell me but it is very obscure however I got to this point: yes, I understand all your points, even though it is hard seeing what you are trying to get at fundamentally, conclusively or ultimately; but I got to the understanding that, you seem to infer you wish to challenge my thinking into questioning myself? However, I do already question myself.

well, you asked for thoughts so maybe your friends can improve with commentary that is not as confusing as I seem to be.

Trying to follow this but honestly a lot of the stuff about wisdom being not the same as knowledge and how it's vital to question yourself, consider other avenues and so on seems redundant.
I can't speak for others but on my own walk I've found the same things. Just because someone doesn't agree however does not mean they don't see the difference between knowledge and wisdom.
Questioning oneself continually and never becoming overly satisfied to the point of stagnation is also a vital element of any serious path, and I think many of the ones who are serious about their learning do not discount this. Myself, I am always questioning and testing things.

About the original post I can see what you mean. Sometimes standing against outright dishonest paths and so on is misunderstood as arrogance and ego, while other times an approach of exclusion and distorted judgment is misunderstood as a good path toward embodying elements of an adversarial culture. It all comes down to individual judgment and perception. It is extremely easy to judge yet much more difficult to actually understand and learn with an open mind.
I also think judgment and pretension both breed on the unstable grounds of misunderstanding.

But you ask about manifesting the adversary, and well, that brings a point to my mind. Part of that remains within the practice of continuing to be yourself and remaining true to your ideals despite all the judgment that comes. Letting judgment of others essentially go into the trash where it belongs, not changing for the expectations and opinions of other people. Especially since in the end the individual seeker is the only one who will truly know his/her own self. Deepening that understanding of self is one of the most vital elements. That's the end goal- not accruing approval from others who will never truly know enough about you to determine who you are. There will always be people watching and judging no matter what you do, who you are, or how you think. This is inescapable.

In my own view, the adversary discards judgment and empowers himself with inner growth, taking both light and darkness in balance and seeing it as a delicate alchemy free of dogma.

When someone has wings, they fly far Above and do not spend time pelting others from the ground.

I am speaking generally of course, these are just a few thoughts that came to mind.

"Just because someone doesn't agree however does not mean they don't see the difference between knowledge and wisdom."

This does not sound as if you have dealt much with Corp. America. This group helps me think spiritually so often and brings to mind the Pope's words...

"Stupidity is also a gift of God, but one mustn't misuse it." Pope Paul II

very simple. one can have all the knowledge in the world. But unless applied properly into the right way and place, no wisdom will ever be attained from that knowledge.

I'd have to disagree. All knowledge would inherently provide the source and thus eventual guide on how to be wise in every situation. Therefore, obtaining ultimate wisdom, even if it may be willingly ignored, though the user of such knowledge would obviously know if this ignorance would hinder them or not. The former most likely being true, leading to wisdom in everything to be known and wisdom known to be followed.

yes.  I had just finished reading your other post and I certainly disagreed with your assessment there.  it did not connect for me as it only felt half finished in the spirit realm.   Neither does your statement above connect completely for me.  I sense a void in your connecting of substance in your assessment, but, of course, you would not feel that way. Also, it does not matter what I believe.  It will only affect us in our own special way in how we are relating to everything around us as it happens.   I can sense we certainly walk a different path. And that is a big and definite area.

If you had a group in a classroom in University and all 50 students were hearing the same lecture every day but at the end of the term each received their own input from the knowledge given.  The grades throughout that class were varied...but they all received the same thing as far as the teaching.  Granted some were not able to assimilate in the same way and even in some cases the things they heard were absorbed in a different way because of their experiences....I can tell you that not all of them went into the same vocation when their venture was over.  Wisdom does not connect in the same way but knowledge does not offer that wisdom in and of itself to experience it.  As I said, one has to groom the listener properly to have it nurture and grow towards wisdom.

So... in what way does manifesting the adversary connect to who one supports and admires? For instance, can someone be a true adversary as discussed in Asetianism while supporting and admiring people such as Belanger for instance, after all her insults and lies?
Should a spiritual adversary proudly rise above the deceit of others, or feed into their egos by promoting their works?
A question or general example posed for review.
Adversarial people often have to deal with their thoughts and actions being misinterprered or judged heavily. But endurance comes with development of stronger character and the discarding of judgment.
Just one example as there are many more.
There is no adversarial potential without being unattached from wanting to fit with a group of peers or go along with a crowd. As well as the practice of watching actions and believing that instead of words.

I also have to disagree. How many incredibly ignorant smart people are out there? I picture an extremely knowledgeable lawyer for instance, with all the bells and whistles of a superior education, a crisp suit costing thousands and some fancy coffee in hand as he chats on a busy cellphone about laws and appointments and all the stuff he knows. Some of those people are among the most blind in society. Knowledge on its own provides no source or guide on how to always be wise. Again I'm thinking of the deeply stupid people who might have tons of knowledge, maybe from formal education, yet know nothing about how to apply it to grow. They might only sit and stagnate atop a pretentious mountain of glory but that glory is only worldly knowledge.

Triple posting (my apologies): I should clarify that I mean those people who never acknowledge the subtle world and remain forever in their spiritual sarcophagus when I give these examples about professions and blind individuals.

Would it, perhaps, be correct to say that an adversary manifests in challenging others' egocentric worldviews or viewpoints, so as to either crack them open upon the ground from a high fall, or bring forth rectification and consequent evolution within the person - sometimes perhaps even both, if the person in question is most unfortunate upon handling that influence, but yet necessary...? I guess interpretations vary but it is nice to see it from many different people's perspectives.

It reminds me that responsibility must be a crucial factor in unleashing such "forces".

Yet, alongst the lines or similar to what Rhea Kaye mentions, there must be some inner stability within the person as an adversary does not come out of nowhere, or else risk being overly pretentious upon a weak ground, but from an innerly developed strong foundation of balanced integration... the focus should also be upon truth.

Excuse me for so many posts at once.

Challenging the rottenness of materialism, standing up for truth fearlessly and with bold confidence, are just some things that come to mind. An adversarial force to liberate. A liberating force to the mind, often held down under its own chains of insignificance and shackles from blindness. The archetype encompasses many things but this just speaks from my own understanding. To me an Adversary is a kind of illuminator.