Are vampires human?

c-kutty wrote:How can you know if you are a vampire ?

Although you may find on the internet entire forums of people claiming to be vampires and Facebook pages all dedicated to communities of vampires, don't let yourself be fooled. Validating a vampire is a very hard thing to accomplish and vampires are a rare kin. Most people that say they are vampires are far from understanding what a vampire really is.
In terms of Asetian vampires, who were the first vampires in history, the Aset Ka has mentioned to have certain metaphysical techniques that allow for them to validate an individual vampire and also what lineage are they a part of (Serpent, Scorpion or Scarab). However this is something unknown to the public and the details they keep secret probably as a tactical advantage. Knowledge is power after all. The only detail we know is that this procedure involves different powers from Elders of different lineages in the bloodline.

By the way, welcome to the forum. Would you please go by the Off Topic section to introduce yourself and let us know a little more about you?

c-kutty wrote:How can you know if you are a vampire ?

I would say as my own opinion that if one has to ask question like this then it is most probable answer that the one who asked the question is not the Vampire.

Also practicing Vampirism does not mean you are automatically Vampire, bu It is completely different thing to be Vampire than be human being just practicing Vampirism!

Vampires are human -- at least in the sense that we inhabit a human body.

lucienvonwolfe wrote:Vampires are human -- at least in the sense that we inhabit a human body.

When Asetianists say that vampires are not human they refer to the nature of their soul. Asetians don't have a human soul, although they inhabit a human body and have similar biology. This results in different abilities, feelings and metaphysics...

I do agree with that, Jonathan. I do not see myself with a human soul. I have met so many who completely disregard that they are human in any way, that I got in the habit of reminding them that they have a human body thus have some human issues they must balance.

Based on my personal experience I have to conclude that vampyres are perfectly human. As I said in my introduction, vampyrism is an interesting psychosomatic phenomenon. Also, since I find no conclusive evidence of the existence of souls, in any way, shape or form, I will not assume that souls exist below.

This mostly comes from the fact that I have never seen, heard of read anything all that impressive regarding vampyres in real life.

I have personally stated that I have found the vampyric community to be one of the most intelligent and level headed groups to my knowledge. With that out of the way, I need to clear out that while there seems to be a suave level of intelligence, at the same time there is nothing inhuman about it. Ofcourse, researching and embracing such a subject, without losing yourself in it cannot be done by anyone, but this capacity is well within human limits.

The second thing I would like to point out, is the exaggeration regarding the physical capabilities of modern vampires. While some may indeed be somewhat faster or stronger than the average person, you first need to remember how strong or fast an "average person" actually is. I have a higher than average strength, which rivals the strength of people who do weightlifting systematically and have quite a developped musclemass, without having nearly as much training as them. Does that make my strength, or myself altogether, inhuman? No, it just means my genetics or general lifestyle allows me to develop physical might easier.

The acute senses of a vampyre, can also be nothing more than a particular person being more sensitive than others. This can happen and does not requirement any metaphysical effect.

Regarding the vampyre's metaphysical abilities, which more often than not are actually restricted to what the vampyric community calls 'energy manipulation', most exercises of this sort tend to produce effects that only affect the one who practises them. When an effect is supposed to occur on somebody else, either nothing happens, or the effect in not consistent producing circumstancial evidence at best, which on its own is hardly an indication, let alone proof of anything. But whichever theory regarding vampyres you take, they are supposed to be more powerful than humans who attempt to do such things and should at least have a consistent effect if not a more powerful one altogether. It should also be noted, that when an effect actually actually takes place on another person other than the practitioner, it's usually when both parties are versed into the practise and generally expect the same effect to occur.

Regarding the bloodlust, I consider it purely psychosomatic. Make no mistake however, this is not to say that it is not a big deal. I have gone though terrible periods of bloodlust when I still considered my self a vampyric entity... and the pain and enfeeblement that I underwent were as real as the monitor in front of me and most of all, truly intense. It was nothing short of torture. (No, I have no history of substance abuse. I don't even drink coffee, or smoke. I currently drink a beer or two once in a while, but back then I didn't even do that.)

On the other side, people may aqcuire a temporary boost in strength in situations of dire need, or something of the sort. It is not unlikely that when a vampyre feeds, something like this is triggered, along with the alleviation of the symptoms of an unsated bloodlust. Akin to a placebo. Ofcourse the increase in abilities isn't as dramatic, but then there is no life-threatening situation either. To get this out of the way, I have drank human blood only once in my life and indeed it was the most revitalizing thing I've ever ingested, without any exaggeration. So, if anything, I do realize how powerful are the sensations that you are dealing with.

Now, I know this is a drastically different point of view when compared to the majority of this forum. I also know, that most of you have already thought of all that and I literally mean, all of it, I say nothing new above... in fact, most vampyres I know start out with similar points of view, as at first they question their situation and later come to accept it. But what good is a forum when it becomes an echo chamber, without a Devil's advocate or two?

In the words of Mr. Dennet: "The only meaning of life worth caring about is the one that can withstand our best efforts to examine it."

Your entire comment is based entirely from the physical or material realm.  We only live our lives half in the physical while the other half is in a separate dimension which is on a different velocity, frequency, and vibration.  But most people structure their life in that fashion and they only wake up when they leave the physical entirely. That higher frequency is where 99.9% of all our existence is and forever will be.  Unless you train to view the inner or astral realm you will never think in those terms here and the same applies to the soul realm.  What you use as the soul terminology is nothing but the unconsciousness that controls 98% of your thought and material movements through your whole life.  If you had no soul and if it did not exist, you would not exist to argue your point, whether correct or incorrect.  And this is from my own personal experience.  That would mean we certainly disagree in just about all of your above statements except for the vampire powers....hell, humans can be taught and trained for many things attributed to what is called vampire elements and the metaphysical or occult background is not as far out as once viewed.  

As far as the vampire topic, there are very, very few actual vampires.  Those that claim it  are only delusional beings that live a part of their existence in fantasyville.  An actual Vampire you would not find any trace or communication from in the open.  Even rational thought would certainly help one discover that.  But there are many even here that continue to cling to outdated thought such as this in hopes it would give them comfort in feeling they are something special.  It is only an inferiority complex which they cannot let go of and grow up.

I see, cordial thanks for the response. The fact that we almost fully disagree, only makes things more interesting. There would be no point in a conversation otherwise.

Yes, my comment is indeed fully rooted in the physical reality. That is correct. The question is however what evidence is there truly of a reality beyond it. Testimonies aside the best indication we have of separate reality, of any sort in fact, are equations which describe a multiverse. If I understand you correctly, I could expand upon your statement to say that many who say they see, or shall use the term "sense", something beyond the physical reality are delusional. I know you spoke particularly of false vampires, but I think the same concept may apply. Fair enough, they are deluded, how then are you different? As I said, the intensity of the sensation has nothing to do with whether it is real not. How did you then, for starters, convince yourself?

You say that if I had no soul, I would not exist in order to discuss it. While this may be considered an undisputed in the circles of the occult, how solid is the evidence for it really? What is lacking in a human body, for which a soul is needed to make up for? Thought? You're brain is a self-conscious supercomputer, it has got you covered. Emotion? It is fully biochemical. Desires? They branch out from our instincts. Energy? The body already has an efficient way of storing fuel and using it to power our existence, it has got you covered. What then is left for the soul to do? In your experience, you have a soul to be of the utmost importance. Care to elaborate on that? You understand that it is a little to difficult to convince someone of anything, if you don't explain the reasons behind your opinion. If the experience is too personal, however, just tell me so and you will be excused.

I never said humans can learn to use psychic abilities, or sorcery of any sort. Also, since I consider vampyres to be completely human, the same goes for them as well. Just to avoid any misunderstanding.

Here is where we agree, in part. Indeed, I would not expect any genuinely metaphysical, or supernatural being to make its presence known out in the open. But then I wouldn't expect to communicate with one on a forum, half a google search away, either. I didn't even have to draw a pentagram on the floor, sacrifice my neighbour and say "Maxx" three times. xD

I digress. Don't take it personally, I'm trying to lighten up the conversation.

The short of it, is that you are making lots of assumptions, which seem entirely unfounded, unless you provide evidence to the contrary. You can play the card of "me not understanding because I am not a vampyre", however that simply brings the debate to a dead end, while proving nothing whatsoever.

I am not defending Maxx here, because he certainly doesn't need anything of the sort. However, I would venture to guess the whole "not understanding because you aren't a vampyre" thing is a bit far off base. Especially because Maxx has never claimed to be anything other than the resident jackass. LOL.

Anyway... no one here can prove anything to you. In fact, that is a very good thing. Having someone else show you the evidence, rather than it coming alive inside of your own being, is far less effective.

Why differentiate these "vampyres" from humans if they are literally nothing other than humans? This simply does not compute with me.

Many, many things are not assumptions but rather truths, that remain hidden...

Steve.  Your words taken here...

"If I understand you correctly, I could expand upon your statement to say that many who say they see, or shall use the term "sense", something beyond the physical reality are delusional. I know you spoke particularly of false vampires, but I think the same concept may apply. Fair enough, they are deluded, how then are you different? As I said, the intensity of the sensation has nothing to do with whether it is real not. How did you then, for starters, convince yourself?"

That is not exactly my statement.  But yes, I was including much of the display alluded to by many calling themselves "Vampire".  There are actual Vampires as I stated but much of what is attempting  to pass off as Vampire material is delusional.

I do not intend to go deeply into the verbage here and explain in minute detail why I say what I say but suffice it to say, I am a practicing occultist and I invoke and evoke various Beings both Angelic as well as so called Demonic.  In the beginning stages most certainly I did learn the trade by using the circle, pentagram, athame, etc. and that is no longer necessary. You might do well to experience it for ones self and learn what you are speaking of.  At a certain point one reaches a stage where you can speak while driving the interstate and call up a friend of the other dimension to sit along side for a conversation.  Or as you stated using the word "thought", it can be done.  All thoughts are located on the inner or astral or spiritual dimension. They are the elements of creation.  Anything you see here in this dimension was first put together there and then manifested here.   So every thing you have around you is proof of my comment and created the material.  There is no need to go in minute detail of what I do or how I do it or how I know of my so called assumptions.  I try not to walk in assumptions as I am not an arm chair magician as so many that write are.  I will speak of others work where they have progressed where they can learn of things to come as well as visit those things from the past as all is connected and while learning of these things they are as real as what you see around you at this time.  I do not condemn your criticism but your words do tell of a lack of experience in learning of higher worlds and dimensions and mentally putting everything you imagine in a world  where you are located and leaves no room for any other.  That is rather shallow but every one is at exactly the place they should be in their life.  No one is too late or too early.

No better proof need be spoken of than the fact there are more than a small number that no longer walk above the ground here as we crossed thought patterns. At this point in time I am not very proud of the fact that I was quick to call for that conclusion instead of a more enlightened way.  But time is an excellent teacher.  I now try to hold back getting involved in that process. That is certainly proof enough for me in my walk.  So proof matters none at all now to convince anyone of anything.  One needs to learn and experience everything for themselves and prove all things for themselves.  And proof in the Spirit world is when you work to create an item and it does appear in the fashion you created it.  What other proof would one need? But I need prove nothing to anyone other than myself.

Your words again...

"I never said humans can learn to use psychic abilities, or sorcery of any sort. Also, since I consider vampyres to be completely human, the same goes for them as well. Just to avoid any misunderstanding."

No. I am the one saying that. I am factually saying that as I am only human. I am no Vampire, and no Vampyre, No Wolf, No Asetian, No ROS, etc. I am only a common human. I have many many paths to walk as I am aware I know nothing. It will take me many more lives to walk before I can come to a seat on the back row of knowledge.

I don't see vampires as humans at all as their soul is different than a human soul in many aspects. Now this is something you may uncover and find after years of research so if you hope to have some brilliant mind suddenly explain it all to you in a public forum your expectations are misplaced and you're probably more intelligent than that.

Now just because vampires aren't spiritually human although they inhabit a human body that doesn't mean that humans can't practice vampirism or explore vampire magick. That's entirely possible.

Also just because there are humans claiming to be vampires and saying that vampires are just humans with an energy deficiency that doesn't make them vampires. It just makes them ignorant.

Jonathan, I am assuming the above comment was directed toward Steve. If I am incorrect, please let us all know. Thanks.

Maxx wrote:Jonathan,  I am assuming the above comment was directed toward Steve.  If I am incorrect, please let us all know.  Thanks.

Yes I was joining the debate in reply to Steve.

I am not certain since he is new to the workings that he is aware he will have to go back to page 4 and read to bring it up to current point to get my reply.

Jonathan... I am now convinced that Dr. Steve is in a lengthy surgery and is unavailable at the moment. We must all pray for his patient and ask for a quick recovery.

Dear Lord! That was quite the delay on my behalf, wasn't it? Now, where were we? I shall type in a few quick replies and then cover Maxx's response.

To Rhea Kaye,

Rhea Kaye wrote:Anyway... no one here can prove anything to you. In fact, that is a very good thing. Having someone else show you the evidence, rather than it coming alive inside of your own being, is far less effective.

Maxx something of the sort in his response as well. Indeed, I do agree that first hand experience is the best method to learn anything, granted ofcourse that some beforehand theoretical knowledge may make the experience more enlightening and most of all safer (chemistry classes would be an example... it is good to know what explodes and what does not in advance). Also, I'm not asking anyone to prove anything to me in particular. I'm rather audatious and conceited at times, but I do not feel thus entitled for the time being. What I wish to know, is basically how have you proved it to yourselves, nothing more and nothing less.

Rhea Kaye wrote:Why differentiate these "vampyres" from humans if they are literally nothing other than humans? This simply does not compute with me.

I am positive that you can comprehend precisely why this statement is a poor arguement, nonetheless I shall provide you with a hypothetical example.

More than a few people in this world have looked at the society of their fellow human beings and found themselves rather disgusted with what they saw. Some thought to themselves "I cannot truly be as bad they are! I must be different!". A few of may go as far as to suggest that they themselves aren't human to begin with, that they are something of another sort entirely, merely trapped in human flesh. Let us say they conclude that they are... The Oakborne! (I just made that up, were it not obvious enough.). They will make remarks such as that they have an "affinity" for trees, love nature and feel most invigorated while in sunlight, all of which is evidence nothing spectacular. Some select few, shall proceed further down "the rabbit hole" and begin speaking with plantlife and even hear it respond.
Now, if two or more of these peculiar tree-folk happen to stumble upon each other, they shall become very excited and conclude that there is a whole group of them, an "orchard", if you will. They will likely make a forum such as this one, where all manner sentient plantlife will gather and communicate through digital means, thus making the term "Oakborne" a rather well-known term. They will most definitely separate what they consider "regular humans" from themselves, the "Oakborne". Does the presence of this new category add any weight to the arguement in favour of the Oakborne's existence? I dare think not, how about yourself?

Rhea Kaye wrote:However, I would venture to guess the whole "not understanding because you aren't a vampyre" thing is a bit far off base.

Not only was it more than "a bit far off base", but in retrospect it was also quite uncalled for. I recognise my error.

This was a rather long and most likely tiresome rant, but I can only that my point has made it safely across.

To Jonathan,

Welcome to our debate then Jonathan, it is a pleasure to have you on board.

Jonathan wrote:...if you hope to have some brilliant mind suddenly explain it all to you in a public forum your expectations are misplaced and you're probably more intelligent than that.

Fear not Jonathan, I expect no such thing. As a matter of fact I am simply collecting points of view, if you will. I am merely curious as to where may this conversation lead. My intelligence, however, remains debatable...

I have been familiar with the concept of vampyres possessing an inhuman soul, while still being incarnate in human flesh for approximately ten years now, so if anything, it is definitely not entirely new to me. However, every group, just like yours will claim superiority over the others, in this at least we should agree. Nonetheless whether said group is correct or not, is always up for debate.

To Maxx,

Maxx wrote:I am not certain since he is new to the workings that he is aware he will have to go back to page 4 and read to bring it up to current point to get my reply.

This coming from a gentleman, who claims to be 99 years of age. Well sir, I am proud to report that I have successfully turned on my computer and now nothing shall dare inhibit my progress! We had pages (mostly of yellow-tinted paper) back in my day and typing machines were equipped with keyboards of their own as well, so I should feel right at home here. I definitely appreciate the concern, however.

Let us begin, shall we?

Maxx wrote:In the beginning stages most certainly I did learn the trade by using the circle, pentagram, athame, etc. and that is no longer necessary. You might do well to experience it for ones self and learn what you are speaking of.

I must confess that I have no practical experience with sorcery of this sort. I do have a book somewhere outlining the basics of a few such magic system, but this was never my cup of tea, even while I functioned with different concepts to my current ones. I was never one for summoning or communicating with otherplanar entities either, as I strongly distrusted them. I did, however, study daemonology rather extensively during that period. Thus, I need to admit that I have little to no theoretical, let alone practical, knowledge of the matter. Runic sorcery seemed somewhat enticing for a little while, but I never pursued this matter.

Maxx wrote:All thoughts are located on the inner or astral or spiritual dimension.

This is one of the first concepts that I came across all those years ago and for a while it did seem like a plausible hypothesis. It is far from the first time that I hear of this. The essence of my issue with the common method of accessing the astral plane is the following. It is simply too much akin, to lucid dreaming. I speak of "astral projection", of course, I'm not certain if you have a different term for it, but this is the one I have encountered. You could train your mind to do all sorts of interesting things. Once you can control your dreams the possibilities are truly limitless. Unless you are utilizing some different means, how certain are you that you aren't merely dreaming?

Maxx wrote:I do not condemn your criticism but your words do tell of a lack of experience in learning of higher worlds and dimensions and mentally putting everything you imagine in a world  where you are located and leaves no room for any other.

I see this in your words and profoundly appreciate it, I also hope that it is obvious that I do not condemn your practices either, in spite of the fact that views may never align. As I stated above, in my response to Jonathan, I am merely "collecting opinions".

You see, I put up my best effort as not to be closed minded, as difficult as this may be. I, however, simply cannot accept anything for a fact, if it cannot be proven by hard evidence. I can understand how my point of view may seem shallow to you, perhaps even bland and uninspired, but reality has no reason to care whether we are content with it or not. On the other hand, I would like to know how far have you examined the world through a scientific lens, as I must attest to the fact that it isn't bland at all. The fact that we are such magnificent beings, granted we have shortcomings, without requiring anything metaphysical in play, is within itself most fascinating. How the dust of dead stars, has come to ponder its very origin. It is almost poetic. I have, to say the least, considered and partially experienced the world from your point of view, but have you done the same from mine? Perhaps you have, perhaps you haven't. This is an honest question and I would truly like to know.

I would like make a few comments regarding your use (and misuse) of certain terminology, which is trationally scientific. I'm merely "putting it out there", if you will. Whether it is of any interest to you, that is obviously for you to decide.
First is the word "dimension". Dimension is by no means synonymous to "plane of existence". Height is a dimension. Width is a dimension, as well as length and time. These comprise the four basic dimensions that one can easily perceive and if I am to believe the mathematical models of theoretical physicists, then there should be a total eleven dimensions, all of which exist in our "plane of existence". Whether the latter is true or false remains, admittedly, debatable.
Second is the term "frequency" and it is likely the one that I find to be most abused by the metaphysical circles, perhaps simply for lack of a better term. I will, as always, take the "material plane of existence" as an example. Which frequency in particular do you speak of? Just as it hosts a multitude of dimensions, it holds an even wider spectrum of frequencies. From a theoretical 0 Hz (where 1 Hz is equal to one repetition of literally anything per second), up to a ridiculously high value, which for the time being cannot seem to be surpassed, regardless of the energy supplied. I can get into details if you are interested. Perhaps, I am thinking too deep into this and, as aforementioned, you simply use the term "frequency" for lack of a better term. But it is obvious enough that this plane, is characterized by far more than a single frequency.

yes, the point of change is the speed of light.  In this DIMENSION the physical body will change shape as it gets closer to that dividing point between the two...And then as it moves into the other and faster speed at which crossing that boundary line occurs, the physical body no longer will exist and then the part that was attached to that physical body will sluff off and be what you described as the ASTRAL body. It did have muscles and nerves and bones and such here but no longer are they attached.  So how does that being get around, build things, learn things, etc.  Mentally is the answer.   Moving cross that boundary line changes everything we knew about the operation here completely.  How do I know?...I have been there....  That is the basis of my declaration.  

How do I know about the magical workings that we talk about?   Oh..let me see.  Oh, yes.   I have done those also....
...
How do I know if I am hallucinating in all that I speak of  or not...?   LOL.  I do not worry.   I have been delusional in the past.....lol   That means I can compare the two things in time and energy.  So I know the difference, first hand between being delusional and not being delusional..  I recall, as a small child I could use my mind to think I was a cowboy and ride a stick horse while all the time thinking it was a real horse.  I really was not a real cowboy but then again, maybe I was for a short while as I dressed in clothes and hat and boots.  ha. Wonder why I did not think I was a Vampire and drink some grape juice and then advance in drinking some real blood to convince myself of...hmm.  Better not get into that too deep here as that might present a problem for someone... But the main point is that I experienced it.  And I have different degrees of life to compare it all to.

As I read today from the writings of Alice Bailey where she spoke of the Master speaking to the initiate.....whereby the initiate becomes a follower of the Master and there is a confirmation of that follower being accepted by the Master.   She describes that the Master has never met or seen or has written anything to that follower in an initiation. Then how is that contact made?   At the point where contact is made and the contact is recognized by the follower there is the initiation and the Master has agreed to accept the follower as a student,....then there is progress. But how can this be?  No physical meeting ever occurs.  It all happens on the astral or the THOUGHT level of a dimension (room where frequency, velocity, vibration is different) than the other person....what ever one would call the two worlds which are separated in one way but are connected in another---terminology not important).  How can this process be proven that it took place..?  Ha.  No worry.  It already has.  There are thousands of university tests and experiments that have proven the exact same thing the world over.  So if along comes a doubting Thomas....well, you know where he will be directed to look instead of wasting time of those that have already proven it.

So how might I know that there exists a difference in degree of inactivity within a subject or topic while speaking of doubt of another that involves ones self within that topic or subject matter actively?  hehe.  I have been there myself in the past.   I personally know of the comparison first hand now that I have gotten up out of the arm chair quarterbacking category and become active.  I find there is far more excitement and entertainment while engaging in said subject than chatting only bout it.

But both parties can be declared expert at what they are doing by someone, Can't they?

Glad to hear your operation was a success.

and of course.....many many and far more frequencies. It is like getting on an elevator and riding into the upper or lower levels in a fantastic sky rise. There is no limit either way, up or down. Just adjustment as to what floor one desires to get off.

People come here all the time in order to learn more about metaphysics, full of cynicism and arguments against what the other members are saying about whatever topic. All I really have to say about this is that it doesn't bother me in the slightest. People are going to think what they want, believe what they want, pick apart what they want. No one here can convince you of anything, and I don't think they should be trying either. No one is going to reveal their experiences that cemented their beliefs on this topic... at least, not if they are even remotely private about their personal matters. Also, don't group us all together and assume that every single person studying Asetianism asserts this path to be above all others. I find that to be limiting and somewhat dismissive. Personally I have never claimed such a thing, due to the fact that it would make no sense to do so and would also be limiting of other viewpoints.

She is right.  I do not think you should insult anyone  here by indicating they are anyway like I am at all.
No group lumping.  You would insult them and their efforts by doing that.  I am nothing but a common Village Idiot and lead Jack Ass leading the camel train through the desert because I have a different angle than they do.  And shorter legs.  And more stubborn personality. And I sleep on my feet.

Dr_Steve wrote:
To Jonathan,

However, every group, just like yours will claim superiority over the others, in this at least we should agree.

What exactly would "my group" be?

To Maxx,

Initially you describe a fairly standard procedure of astral projection, which transported you mentally to the astral plane. While in that place, you had bones, muscles and nerves, none of which were "attached" however. What purpose did they serve then? Every single structure in the human, or any other body, either currently serves, or used to serve a particular purpose in the evolutionary past. Point being, your mind has simply presented you with a familiar image of your body, with but a minor twist.

Maxx wrote:How do I know if I am hallucinating in all that I speak of  or not...?   LOL.  I do not worry.   I have been delusional in the past.....lol   That means I can compare the two things in time and energy.

To begin on a dire note, I wouldn't worry either way. But on to the point. The example you provide as "delusion" is the run of the mill imagination of a child. Though technically it might be considered delusion, it yet perfectly normal. However, I do not wish for you to have ever had a more severe case than the aforementioned.
Although, hallucinations are more often than not tied to a certain belief they are far from predictable. You may indeed be sane, or may have simply slided a little too far down the "rabbit hole" to discern it from reality.

Maxx wrote:There are thousands of university tests and experiments that have proven the exact same thing the world over.

Thousands? Unfortunately this is not your fault. Not entirely at least. I have read a few works of these spiritualists and have witnessed how they utilize scientific terminology, in hopes of their work having a greater impact. This is called pseudoscience. Many of these "scientific" publications use false data in order to prove their concepts, or simply jump to unfounded conclusions. The official stance of paranormal research, which includes the matters we currently discuss, is that nothing has been proven as of yet. It has literally yielded no results since it has begun. I have nothing against honest scientists who work in this field, perhaps at some point they will be able to provide us with enlightening experimental evidence and that alone is reason enough for them to proceed. For the time being, however, it has been entirely fruitless.

To Jonathan,

Jonathan wrote:What exactly would "my group" be?

If you speak of the Asetians, then the time is definitely not yet ripe for me to draw any conclusion.

To Rhea Kaye,

Rhea Kaye wrote:Also, don't group us all together and assume that every single person studying Asetianism asserts this path to be above all others.

No such assumption has been made.

First part.....that is exactly how you are going to find things are created on that side and quickly ....with your mind and thought process.  Same thing here...except it takes a little longer.   Food can be created and put on a plate on the table and you eat it....even though you never have to eat except for your own amusement.  So you can have bones and arms and heads....if you want them....but they are not needed.  Simple, yes...simple is great.  I am thinking a quarterback needs a simple process to see.   Everything about me is simple.

Second part....I would enjoy being crazy.....  I would be able to get a bigger discount at the store.

Third part....I have my own projects to check myself against.  I am not going to present to you all I do but quickly I know how I gauge results against my activity.  3 days ago I decided I was going to start a new project.  I began to set it up and spend 15 mins twice a day in creating it.  Today, on the 3rd day I got a beginning of the action to occur.  I made $1100 today in hand with another $12,000 to be paid by the end of Oct.   At that same appointment I made contact with a salesman that wants to Joint Venture with what I do and is going to enter into contract with me for 20 percent of the action. This state allows that.  I do all the work and he sets me up with all of his contacts. I expect I will bring in $200,000 my part with his connections only by the end of the year.  Another aspect took place at another stop where I found an atty to do the same thing with her client list.  No telling how much her connection will produce for me...I expect half a million.  Beside that I told her I wanted her to take care of  my IRS problem and the $175,000 I owe will disappear.  She thinks it is not a problem.  She will do it for $150 an hour and should be able to make it disappear with 10 hours of work... cheaper than others have talked to me about in the range of $10,000.  The next thing I spotted a four story bldg I want so I put that into the process.  Use it for office and dwelling combination and able to do small seminars within.  I will have it and pay it all off by the end of the year.  So to hell with the doubters and trying to convince someone else this works.  I can care less with the doubters that sit on their ass and criticize while doing nothing.  I know the process works as I have spoken to the beings in the other area I call up whether in a circle or in an auto or when I close my eyes.  The ones that lose are those that do nothing but talk and criticize.  So good luck with the rest of your life.  To zero in on today's meeting, I had planned on getting up at 5am and heading to the meeting and be there at 9 am where I had a 11:30 am appointment set.  But I was awaken at 1:30am and the magical being I work with told me not to go early as I was to be there at the appointed time. So I got there at 11:30 and the guy told me if I had gotten there early as he was gone and would not have met me.  He said this timing sure worked out well for him and if I had been 10 min off we would not have been able to make the meeting.  That magical being was able to direct me at just the right time.   So there must be something wrong with the process as it works exactly like the spirit world told me.  All I can say to the Nay Sayers again....  You lose by doing nothing and doubting everything.   At the end of your life you will have missed out on EVERYTHING by inaction.  This is all the input I will be giving you about things I do.  I prefer doing them rather than debating if I have a term incorrect or not or whether many are not in agreement with how you think things should not be working properly.  I have seen many doing the same things you have chosen to do with a keyboard.  But as another has said.  We need not prove anything to those that walk in doubt.  I guess you could just sum it up saying I just had a lucky day....but I do not think that is the case as I designed it all in the beginning.

Now..   What do you want from us here, Dr Steve?

Maxx wrote:I do not think you should insult anyone here by indicating they are anyway like I am at all.
No group lumping. You would insult them and their efforts by doing that. I am nothing but a common Village Idiot and lead Jack Ass leading the camel train through the desert because I have a different angle than they do. And shorter legs. And more stubborn personality. And I sleep on my feet.

LOL