For those not yet convinced of former lives...

I'm pretty sure this is the 16000 post.
Just had to steal it.

Maxx, I have been extremely interested in the other side of Tree. However, I can find very little resources on it. Do you have suggestions or is this something I should allow myself to be guided to by a higher being?

Really....I will contact you in private as I may be able to send you something that I have not fully decided to open to everyone just yet.  It will be a pathworking from the bottom to the top spheres and will open some areas or particular spheres which you have never viewed that way before.  But a book for this I have looked at In the past is Thomas Karlsson book Qabalah, Qliphoth and Goetic Magic.  It views both tree of life and tree of knowledge.  But do not make the mistake of taking all that Jewish and Bible info as gospel...lol.   Only use it to get an over view of the working system.

And to return to the scene of the crime.....even multi linguistic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KPMiYi8btjk

I find that extremely interesting and even in a personal manner as by the age of fourteen I myself was able to say phrases in twenty different languages with out particular study.
This goes to show that many people who find themselves unable to learn a language should do some past life work to see if that language falls in their past. It is my belief that if one was to discover a particular language in their past, they find it easier to learn.

there are many answers one can find in this experience.  I have personally seen people healed of problems just by entering a previous life and nothing was ever said about that sickness or illness in this life.  They came back and the problem disappeared.  Remarkable things happen to those who seek..... 

This thread is inspiring a lot of good dialogue. It has been a pleasure to read you all.

seekerofba wrote:I'm pretty sure this is the 16000 post.
Just had to steal it.

That's worth a celebration!   

A lot of posts, this forum really has grown with so much content that it became a monster reference!

Yes, you and kalb needed to be in here and add to it. Then Victor can come along and straighten out all my messes.....that is what is called the Monster Mash.
I knew that old song was written for some reason...ha.

Are you referring to the tree of death that has a way later relation in history then the tree of life that is portrayed in the Zohar ?



That essentially was created in the 20th century ?

Maxx wrote:Yes, you and kalb needed to be in here and add to it.  Then Victor can come along and straighten out all my messes.....that is what is called the Monster Mash.
I knew that old song was written for some reason...ha.

 

Divine......exactly. No matter when it was designed...I have found it greatly useful and beneficial. Also K. Grant and Crowley found it very useful also.

I have not studied this deeply, I have known of it for a while … it kinda looks interesting .. can you give us a quick over view about the differences ?

From the book I mentioned......
"The Qliphoth are called the excrements of Creation and are occasionally associated with the material world, and sometimes with something that is even lower and worse in the Qabalistic hierarchy.   Certain Qabalistic scholars want to connect the Qliphoth with the Assiah or Asiah, the lowest level on the Tree of Life to which the Sephirah Malkuth belongs.  But, at the same time, the ten Qliphotic anti-worlds correspond to the entire Sephirotic structure with all four planes.  The ten Qliphotic worlds are populated by demons and evil beings.  In the Qabalah Unveiled, by the 19th century Qabalist and Hermetic S.L. MacGregor Mathers, which contains a collection of Zohar texts originally published in Latin by Knorr von Rosenroth, Assiah and the evil worlds are described therein.....and continues.  

Since my magical work includes calling to evocation as well invocation both the Angelic world as well as the Demonic world, I certainly use it.   The stories of Solomon, even though I consider to be falsely presently, I use as inspiration in calling up both worlds.  I am certain you can find even today within the Vatican (smile), that same technique used in the magic they attend to in their basement....lol.
So, now I have revealed myself......my diet does not just consist of sugar.......lol. I love lemon juice also. Combined it produces lemonade.

Divine...I might also add that what that represents and connects WITH is far older than the 20th century...

Keep in mind that in the Sephiroth of the Tree of Life you will also find demons and what some would call evil beings. It's dogma from the Judaic tradition that teaches us that all these spheres from the Tree of Life are angelic and used for good. In fact experience teaches us otherwise as it does traditions such as Asetianism and other LHP studies that expose the Sephiroth under a much more complete light and I shall say a far more dangerous one. The Tree of Life can also be used in evocation of those demons and forces often accessible by the Tree of Death, only it's a much less known process and if done without responsibility can lead to many imbalances and dangers since those doors touch on higher ethereal realms than the Qliphoths do. In other words there is more to gain from it but also more to lose. That is one of the reasons why most Luciferians stay away from it and only focus on the Tree of Death and the Qliphoth.
I may be wrong about this assumption but it's my belief that this is the actual reason why the Book of Orion teaches about the Tree of Life and the uses of Sephiroth for both the positive and negative polarities, as they seem to be used and work effectively to contact both the forces from the Tree of Life as well as the Tree of Death, if one knows what he is doing. This is however my personal conclusion and something only the author could answer.

Very good point.   Personally I have found that the demonic realm is much easier to work with than the other.  I also have seen that the Angelic portion is much more destructive than the Demonic group.  Even looking at accounts from past history, you can find larger examples of destruction done by these so called Angelic Beings than the Demonic.  But as mentioned, everyone has a different objective and also a different personality.  Depends on where one is most comfortable.  But yet, one possibly needs to experience both elements to know which works best for that individual.

Maxx wrote:Divine…I might also add that what that represents and connects WITH is far older than the 20th century...

I know that the practice of the tree is very very old … but I also know that it has evolved to many branches… you have this tree ( the tree of death ) , you have the hermetic tree, you have the version the golden dawn uses and most certainly there are more…
However up to now (proven by dating, to public at least ) the one in the Aramaic Zohar is still the oldest one and gave birth to the others…

For me personally, I think its very wise to go from oldest to new .. to get an understanding of the evolution of the tree of life/ death … or whatever you want to call it .. since the Zohar refers to it as the body of god…

However I will certainly look in to it, even though I am more found of the more ancient/older writings .

Thank you so much for sharing <3 much appreciated

Nightshade wrote:Keep in mind that in the Sephiroth of the Tree of Life you will also find demons and what some would call evil beings. It's dogma from the Judaic tradition that teaches us that all these spheres from the Tree of Life are angelic and used for good. In fact experience teaches us otherwise as it does traditions such as Asetianism and other LHP studies that expose the Sephiroth under a much more complete light and I shall say a far more dangerous one. The Tree of Life can also be used in evocation of those demons and forces often accessible by the Tree of Death, only it's a much less known process and if done without responsibility can lead to many imbalances and dangers since those doors touch on higher ethereal realms than the Qliphoths do. In other words there is more to gain from it but also more to lose. That is one of the reasons why most Luciferians stay away from it and only focus on the Tree of Death and the Qliphoth.

You mentioned an important detail often overlooked. I agree that it is possible to use the Tree of Like and the Sephiroth to access the most demonic realms and that the Sephiroth aren't really angelic as some might say but complete and complex. You actually have both sides and both polarities on the Tree of Life if you get deeper into the Left Pillar and Right Pillar. It truly is a study for lifetimes! The Book of Orion does a good service in explaining that potential. Especially if you take that knowledge put forth in the book and then use it in your own practice to access the hidden temples behind the Sephiroth.
I understand and agree with what you say about the dangers of using the higher realms to explore demonic forces being too great and requiring mastery and responsibility, and a reason why Luciferians prefer exploring the Qliphoth instead, however that is not the only reason. Another common one is that they simply don't have knowledge of this process you are referring to as it's a profound initiatory process and not one often discussed in those circles. Also many Luciferians are way too blinded by their own ego to be able to survive such a profound journey of the soul.

One thing not mentioned in any of this is there are very few who actually begin the journey of actually doing the work and participating in any of this.  Many call themselves magicians and only read all the material they can get their hands on but never experience any of the details by putting forth the effort.  Mind Magicians I call them.  (I make this clear I am not speaking of Victor or Nightshade here).

Each of us has a destiny but I have discovered that very few actually search for what that destiny really is before beginning focused work towards it.  Wandering aimlessly in the desert without knowing why we are wandering serves no purpose toward our greater advancement in life.   It stands to reason, for myself anyway, that I would need to discover where my path should go before I set out on my journey.  I am convinced that there are many that are unhappy in life because they have no vision of the journey and sit around and wait on the next thing to interest them while their life floats away.

Maxx wrote:From the book I mentioned......
"The Qliphoth are called the excrements of Creation and are occasionally associated with the material world, and sometimes with something that is even lower and worse in the Qabalistic hierarchy.   Certain Qabalistic scholars want to connect the Qliphoth with the Assiah or Asiah, the lowest level on the Tree of Life to which the Sephirah Malkuth belongs.  But, at the same time, the ten Qliphotic anti-worlds correspond to the entire Sephirotic structure with all four planes.  The ten Qliphotic worlds are populated by demons and evil beings.  In the Qabalah Unveiled, by the 19th century Qabalist and Hermetic S.L. MacGregor Mathers, which contains a collection of Zohar texts originally published in Latin by Knorr von Rosenroth, Assiah and the evil worlds are described therein.....and continues.  

Not sure what I'm saying, but do you think that it's possible that this may be linked to Sethians? They are strongly linked to the energy of Apophis. What do you think?

I believe some Sethians may be using it. Victor and I had a beginning conversation about the possibility this might be the case as some of the things I research into may be linked into that area. Good eye, Fire Marshal.

I am placing this thread as sticky due to the quality of debate and its contents may be useful to others.

@Max .After reading the Kemetic tree of life .. I understood that the tree of life practice is ancient and have higher significance true the ancient world then previously known trees … Im obsessed with mystery … and every mystery i seek, makes me dig deeper .. this applies on most levels, and can often make my posts a bit confusing … but if one reads beneath the lines of what knowledge one is in the possession of, what I write is very logical …

The practice of the tree is in it self a very very important one, when it coms to self understanding and magical work, it most certainly is a mirror of "god".

Im writing this, since I seem to have a feeling that you didn't really read between the lines in what I wrote…

I was not in anyway trying to offend anyone…
I really hope you didn't take it that way.
If so, I apologize.

Victor* I most certainly agree with you.

Sybil Mason wrote:I am placing this thread as sticky due to the quality of debate and its contents may be useful to others.

Good idea. Thanks.

Victor wrote:

Nightshade wrote:Keep in mind that in the Sephiroth of the Tree of Life you will also find demons and what some would call evil beings. It's dogma from the Judaic tradition that teaches us that all these spheres from the Tree of Life are angelic and used for good. In fact experience teaches us otherwise as it does traditions such as Asetianism and other LHP studies that expose the Sephiroth under a much more complete light and I shall say a far more dangerous one. The Tree of Life can also be used in evocation of those demons and forces often accessible by the Tree of Death, only it's a much less known process and if done without responsibility can lead to many imbalances and dangers since those doors touch on higher ethereal realms than the Qliphoths do. In other words there is more to gain from it but also more to lose. That is one of the reasons why most Luciferians stay away from it and only focus on the Tree of Death and the Qliphoth.

You mentioned an important detail often overlooked. I agree that it is possible to use the Tree of Like and the Sephiroth to access the most demonic realms and that the Sephiroth aren't really angelic as some might say but complete and complex. You actually have both sides and both polarities on the Tree of Life if you get deeper into the Left Pillar and Right Pillar. It truly is a study for lifetimes! The Book of Orion does a good service in explaining that potential. Especially if you take that knowledge put forth in the book and then use it in your own practice to access the hidden temples behind the Sephiroth.
I understand and agree with what you say about the dangers of using the higher realms to explore demonic forces being too great and requiring mastery and responsibility, and a reason why Luciferians prefer exploring the Qliphoth instead, however that is not the only reason. Another common one is that they simply don't have knowledge of this process you are referring to as it's a profound initiatory process and not one often discussed in those circles. Also many Luciferians are way too blinded by their own ego to be able to survive such a profound journey of the soul.

Good posts with really important concepts to keep in mind. I agree with what both of you are trying to explain. Those are very powerful tools.