The Problem of Role-Playing

I said, later in other topic, that role-playing isn't very good. Since I think we should always give a good reason for anything we think (or life would show no reason for itself at all) I'll explain here my point of view. I'd like your opinion as well on this topic.

Gaming and Role-playing isn't very good, because it can bring various psychological issues, and even denial of
the Self. Good ways to develop imagination are writing, painting,
playing music, composing, etc. About games with visual support, the
concentration you develop is not conscious. You are very focused, but you don't even know it because, as you develop you develop your skills, you become animal-like. What matters about the development of
concentration is that it is conscious, and that you can bend it
willingly, focusing in what you want. If that's not the type of consciousness you're developing, you're not in the best path.

But I won't say that it is highly dangerous. Moderately, it can be relaxing and fun.

Best regards, Karnath.

I would not say that role-playing is wrong per se, or not very good as you said. It just becomes wrong when people cannot distinguish it from reality, or use it as framework to their own personal growth or metaphysical development. There are certainly many people that play games, but might be knowledgeable about the occult as well. However, when they start mixing both things, then the result is not good. We can see this clearly in some vampiric life-styling sects, mainly in the USA, not so much common, but also present, in Europe. In those cases people started using RPG games with vampiric concepts and darkness tones as a way to create their own views on the occult, traditions and practices... which ends up leading to an eclectic practice of no real sustenance. Many people in those communities even believe they have been the creators or starters of the modern vampiric community, when in fact the community of vampires has nothing of modern. It exists for centuries, just not exposed to most people, but hidden in the shadows of common society. And that's what we really describe as true vampires...

Maktub

By the way, should not this thread be moved to the Vampires category? It is kinda related I believe.

Maktub

Hello again.

Thank you for your valuable feedback, Maktub. We're very much into the same thought about this subject.

I agree that this thread should be moved to the Vampires category. My bad.

Best regards, Karnath.

Moved upon request to the proper category.

I am and always was a bit of a traditional nerd, and with that comes a love of roleplaying games. I've spent a lot of time on them, and I believe they can be very helpful as an escape and a means of creativity...but because of that, and because they tend to attract the...how should I say it...'socially awkward' of us, they pull a lot of people too far in and then become problematic.

I agree with Karnath that there are better, more direct ways of being creative, but when it comes down to it plenty of us aren't terribly good with a paintbrush or guitar. That's one reason I did a lot of online roleplaying, where you write out your actions as long posts as detailed as you like...and essentially co-write a massive epic with the other players.

But, as both a student and practitioner of the occult for a long while I'll also agree that roleplaying can at times cause all sorts of problems. I live in the Eastern USA, not far from the huge urban settings of Philadelphia, New York City, or Washington DC, and so anytime I engage in a search for local occult or vampiric activity of any sort I almost always manage to find my search muddied by dozens of life-action roleplaying groups, people who are not in and of themselves roleplaying but base all their knowledge on roleplaying books/websites, and people who have gone a bit too deep and have begun to believe they are their character. Both 'Vampire: the Masquerade' and the newer 'Vampire:the Requiem' are very popular around here, and it is always hard for me to reconcile my enjoyment of these games as a casual escapist enjoyment with the many irritations and dead-ends these games have caused me in my spiritual journey and research.

Hello Grim, and welcome to the forum.

It was a nice first post. I agree with what you said. Although not being a role-player or gamer myself, I do agree that gaming alone is not the issue here. Role-playing is not negative alone, but only when people start to mix it fully with their ways of life, spiritual evolution and magickal practices.

If you would like, you can make an introduction about yourself in the Off-Topic category, so the rest of the members would also get acquainted with you. I hope you enjoy your stay.

Maktub

Em hotep Grim,
Be welcome here

EM

Welcome to our community, Grim.

Aghrab

Thank you for the warm welcome, all.

I will be posting more in the other areas of the forum, but first I am taking a day or two to read through all the existing threads and properly digest them.

(new around here)

I hope i'm not intruding on the thread, but i would disagree on one aspect.
As it has been said, it all depends on the individual... and his/her ability to know what's real and what's not! That's a given.

I recently read an article on role playing (not in the gaming realm of things), which had a curious insight to it. It explained how role playing had the benefit of allowing one to experience things one would not experience in day-to-day living. Several hidden aspects of the psyche are therefore revealed and experienced ...

Of course the potential for harmful consequences depends on the -already mentioned- capability of understand what's real and what's not! (not to be confused with what's seen or unseen... that would take us on a whole other path ). Also if the person with which the role play is ..er.. "played" with has the knowledge that he/she is playing.

sorry for any mistakes, typos .. etc

The difference in experience for example in some playing a mountain climbing game could never come close to actually climbing that mountain.
I disagree with your disagreement.

Welcome Grimm, a very nice first post.

As for roleplaying...I personally believe that as long as an individual can seperated their true personality from that which they have created for themselves, either via a legitimate game, or for other reasons, then I have little problem with it.

Sadly, there are too many that become so heavily involved with roleplaying, that their own persona becomes nothing but a shadow of who they used to be.

This is just my own personal opinion, based on interaction with said individuals.

Talibah wrote:As for roleplaying...I personally believe that as long as an individual can seperated their true personality from that which they have created for themselves, either via a legitimate game, or for other reasons, then I have little problem with it.

On this role-playing subject, I believe as long as an individual can keep himself from drowning into what he is pretending to be, not leaving his true self behind completely and entering a delusional world... as long as he can understand what is being done, then it is only but his choice to put on some contact lense, some fangs and try to accept and enjoy himself that way. As it was previously mentioned, this is even a help to the secrecy of the true vampires themselves.

Aghrab

Role-playing can have a completely delusional effect in what comes to Vampirism. Putting it simple, a great and direct example of this is House Kheperu, here in the US. They used to gather together to play the game "Vampire The Masquerade", got too much into the game and mixed it together with some personal (and financial) interest for the occult and metaphysics to create what would later become House Kheperu. It has no valid history, no valid spirituality... and just a blend of eclectic energy manipulation techniques put all together in a Codex that reads as a kitchen recipe book. So without trying to insult anyone's beliefs around here, if they are present, but for who is in the community for long, especially here in the United States, they still remain the best example out there of how gaming and role-play can negatively influence the vampire community.

Greetings again.

Yes, Victor. The example of House Kheperu is considered a classic about role-playing among European Covens and Orders. Among other classic jokes. Also not wanting to offend anyone's beliefs. I've been in touch with a couple of members, and one of them was particularly nice to chat with.

We must also remember all the fiction that people impersonate in such a fashionable way. Cthulhu Mythos, for instance, has become a hype over the years. Lovecraft sure had a hell of an imagination. Lots of Chaos Magicians drowned into this Mythos and followed through it. The effects, of course, are those of typical strong belief: things might even work.

Best regards,
Karnath.

meh, iv played most of them vampire games out there and i dont feel any of them represent vampirism too good, that includes vampire the masquerade, it was an interesting game but didnt quite hit... oblivion messed up vampirism, morrowind was bit better..

As i see it, games like ultima online strikes bit better for roleplay (note private servers have best content for that), while all the fps types and/or strategy games missrepresent them...

Role playing helps you to become a better writer. Aslong as you don't take it too seriously I think it's ok.

Greetings.

You don't need role-playing to be a good writer. If you want to be a good writer, you have to be your Self. Most of the people we call good writers these days, are no more than role-players. They incorporate a character who can indeed write all that. They imitate the way they think that character would write, and they imitate the kind of thoughts such a character would have to make the characters for the book. If they do that, they're not writing themselves. The character is writing. Fortunately, one of the best writers in the world, Fernando Pessoa, always signed with the name of the character, which were his heteronyms. He basically incarnated that person, even if merely an imagined one, and started writing. But he also has his ortonym (who is himself, signing as Fernando Pessoa). He basically shows us how much a schizophrenic he was, totally different people, during different (writing) times of his life.
What makes this man a good writer, is that he signs as much with his name, as with the name of his self-created characters. And the best of his works, in my opinion, is the spiritual one he created with his very name.

Best regards,
Karnath.

As with all things, I believe that Role Playing is ok (in moderation). Its just the extremists that make things difficult. I RP as a vampire on Gaia (I'm human) because its the little made up character I've had since I was 8 and I love developing his story. I see how the extreme RPers can confound the true image of vampires by claiming to be them not only online but in public as well. It is truly sad how people will tend to believe the most easiest things from the mouths of others and that they themselves never believe anything they don't see with their own two eyes.

We all role play. At work, at play, and perhaps to a degree in this forum. Role playing can be a positive outlet for our fanatsies - or an anchor chain drowning us in non-existent falsehoods. I concur with my fellow forum members who state that one should know how to separate role play and reality.

I must agree that roleplaying is very dangerous to the young minds that get sucked into it. Sadly, I've been in those shoes myself concerning an online community Nosftu.com who claims that they are indeed the living imprints of anne rice's novels. The whole drama of that place has rippled effect with many of it's memebers, and has caused atleast one known suicide attempt by a young member a few years ago. I always came with the intent to find out the truth, and just have connection with people who share the same liking for anne rice. That faded into an immature online slandering battle for the attention of the moderators..and the delusions from the members started to unravel into claims of being visited, drinking blood, cutting ect..

There are other websites and LARP that deal with the same intentions that sour into falsehood.

I personally believe that the imagination infused with the desires of a person can warp the mind and spirt into a horrible downward spiral.

Roleplaying is fine for those who can honestly cut off fantasy from reality, for others who tend to get the two mixed, it's very dangerous indeed.