Asetian Magick and Witchcraft - The Magus of Darkness

Yes that parallel between serpent and dragon is something that I agree upon as well. Although for me, as an Asetianist, the stellar dragon has a very strong connection with Aset and her Daemons. It may not be the DBoE that addressed Seth but actually The Azoetia instead, I am not sure.

Will you undergo all the stellar operations in the DBoE? That does take a lot of time to complete properly.

If I remember correctly some material included in Primal Craft was taken from Chumbley, although in a much simplified form.

Jonathan wrote: If I remember correctly some material included in Primal Craft was taken from Chumbley, although in a much simplified form.

Em hotep

I had done research about the Toad rite quite recently and read the book One - The Grimoire of the Golden Toad by Andrew Chumbley. I stumbled upon the different types of doing it within the book which is for the most part the way it is described in Primal Craft. It describes the killing of the Toad should be only done if the way of sacrifice has been opened, and a lot of things talked about in the QoH. The name is also the same as the Rite is described as "The Waters of The Moon". That description and ritual in the grimoire is indeed more detailed in some aspect while the other focuses more on direct contact to ask guidance and further specific details. I hope this helps.

Jonathan wrote:Yes that parallel between serpent and dragon is something that I agree upon as well. Although for me, as an Asetianist, the stellar dragon has a very strong connection with Aset and her Daemons. It may not be the DBoE that addressed Seth but actually The Azoetia instead, I am not sure.

Will you undergo all the stellar operations in the DBoE? That does take a lot of time to complete properly.

If I remember correctly some material included in Primal Craft was taken from Chumbley, although in a much simplified form.

If I may ask, how or why do you view that the stellar dragon has a direct connection to Aset and her Daemons?  

I am preparing to undergo the stellar operations and other rites as well.  I think it's hard to understate the amount of preparation required as well as the acquisition of key tools. Year "zero" for me will extend from January of this year to November at which time I will start with daily and seasonal rites and that will continue for a minimum of two years...  So I can say it is taking up a significant amount of time and it is a good thing that I'm retired.

I really don't know anything about Primal Craft.  

Now with regard to the Azoetia, the second edition is known as the "Sethos" edition and maybe that is what you were referring to.   However, Sethos is briefly explained in the Azoetia glossary this way:

Sethos: The Daimon of the Grimoire Azoetia; a noetic emanation of the Magical Quintessence; a mediator between Abel, Cain and Seth, that is, between, the Sacrificed Man of Clay (the Uninitiate Self), the Transformative Man of Fire (the Initiating and Becoming Self), and the Self-Transformed Man of Light (the Initiatic Self-existant One).

SorcierRog wrote:

Jonathan wrote:Yes that parallel between serpent and dragon is something that I agree upon as well. Although for me, as an Asetianist, the stellar dragon has a very strong connection with Aset and her Daemons. It may not be the DBoE that addressed Seth but actually The Azoetia instead, I am not sure.

If I may ask, how or why do you view that the stellar dragon has a direct connection to Aset and her Daemons?  

See “Dragon Heart,” Violet Throne pages 244-247.

...See “Dragon Heart,” Violet Throne pages 244-247.

Excellent reference. I have to admit that I did not recall this section, but it is very significant to me now.  I would speculate that LM either knew AC or was familiar with the DBoE because on page 245, first paragraph, LM  uses some key terminology that is very consistent with AC's writings; specifically the use of the term "adversary" and "opposer" especially as how it is used in the written context. Thank you for pointing out such an important reference.

SorcierRog wrote:

...See “Dragon Heart,” Violet Throne pages 244-247.

Excellent reference. I have to admit that I did not recall this section, but it is very significant to me now.  I would speculate that LM either knew AC or was familiar with the DBoE because on page 245, first paragraph, LM  uses some key terminology that is very consistent with AC's writings; specifically the use of the term "adversary" and "opposer" especially as how it is used in the written context. Thank you for pointing out such an important reference.

It’s likely that Luis Marques has read or touched upon the content of DBoE as he isn’t one to reject any form of knowledge.

He publicly stated to be versed in Crowlian magick, noting study of AC works and the Qlipothic spheres of the Tree of Life in the 1st Edition Asetian Bible. He quotes Aleister Crowley from Liber AL in Book of Orion/Violet Throne in Liber Yesod and explains the reasons behind some of AC’s Tarot changes. He also lists “The Magick of Aleister Crowley” and “The Thoth Tarot” in the Violet Throne Bibliography.

VedantaBlack wrote:

SorcierRog wrote:

...See “Dragon Heart,” Violet Throne pages 244-247.

Excellent reference. I have to admit that I did not recall this section, but it is very significant to me now.  I would speculate that LM either knew AC or was familiar with the DBoE because on page 245, first paragraph, LM  uses some key terminology that is very consistent with AC's writings; specifically the use of the term "adversary" and "opposer" especially as how it is used in the written context. Thank you for pointing out such an important reference.

It’s likely that Luis Marques has read or touched upon the content of DBoE as he isn’t one to reject any form of knowledge.

He publicly stated to be versed in Crowlian magick, noting study of AC works and the Qlipothic spheres of the Tree of Life in the 1st Edition Asetian Bible. He quotes Aleister Crowley from Liber AL in Book of Orion/Violet Throne in Liber Yesod and explains the reasons behind some of AC’s Tarot changes. He also lists “The Magick of Aleister Crowley” and “The Thoth Tarot” in the Violet Throne Bibliography.

To be more specific, here is the exact quote from the introduction of the Asetian Bible.

Luis Marques, Page 18 of Asetian Bible wrote: Another relevant information to be stated is that the Aset Ka is not a closed shell of information. It studies a wide range of knowledge and mystical traditions developed across millennia. The whole traditions that are subject of study within the Order belong to a wide variety of knowledge inside the occult spectrum ranging from the modern Aleister Crowley’s Thelema, to ancient Oriental traditions, European traditional witchcraft, Persian, Babylonian and Sumerian sorcery, Cabalistic workings, particularly from a Qlippothic perspective, and other Left-Hand traditions like Luciferianism, ritual and astral vampirism, among many others.

Jonathan wrote:Not sure if someone is interested in getting into this on the open forum but I’ll leave the question up for debate here regardless.

Have you used your practices of Asetian magick alongside those of Wizardry and Witchcraft? No need to get into detail but if so were you surprised with the outcome?

I'm aware that many in the Asetianist community venture into those paths of traditional magick and have found great results wielding these forces aligned with the Asetian mysteries.

Note: No, I'm not interested in hearing about Luciferian or Satanist practices for the purpose of this thread. I'm strictly speaking about hardcore witchcraft in the traditional sense as it was developed centuries ago in Europe. Thank you.

I totally didn't like going alongside the witchcraft you mention. It created evil eye, bad luck and death. Working alongside arabian witchcraft or iranian witchraft is way more healthy, powerful and even provides for learning moments and powerplaces.

I for myself have some 'o9a ways' where there is more respect, nobility and grace, then what i had to deal with when going along these ways you mention.

To be honest i find there workings a disgrace and i really have to compose myself in order to not attack and start a witchwar..

Drugs are bad, Lou.

nothing to do with drugs, dear rhea. i know my witchraft and i know theirs. ever been under attack by warlocks from different areas of life?
i have been for over 30 years now and i know the difference.

ow and since you mention drugs: did you ever research herbal uses in ancient egypt? it might surprise you what they called healing agents and what they called intoxicants.

and btw i dont mind you guys attacking me for posting stupid songs and i always hold back there because i know how mass manipulation with emotion works, but in the other topics i just be me. so if you again have a problem with me typing here in this forum, please go tell sybel. im quite done with this nagging everytime i post here.

8lou1 wrote:
I totally didn't like going alongside the witchcraft you mention. It created evil eye, bad luck and death. Working alongside arabian witchcraft or iranian witchraft is way more healthy, powerful and even provides for learning moments and powerplaces.

I for myself have some 'o9a ways' where there is more respect, nobility and grace, then what i had to deal with when going along these ways you mention.

I strongly disagree with this misguided notion that Arabian and Iranian witchcraft are more powerful than European witchcraft. They're just different. Maybe you just feel more at ease with it due to your cultural background.

By the way O9A is not European Witchcraft, just like Primal Craft or EA Koetting aren't European Witchcraft. That idea would irk a lot of masterful practitioners of the European hidden tradition.

I don't have a problem with you personally. Just the very typical claims I'm used to seeing everywhere else.
For one, you aren't important or experienced enough to be involved in any kind of a "witch war". It's probably just your own imagination getting the best of you. Hell, I am not either, I'm just saying, I can recognize it easily in you.
Your claims about this original post make no sense either. You just seem extremely lost and misguided.
I don't particularly care if you're done or not with the opinions I share on your bizarre posts. It isn't up to you to decide who gets to criticize what. You post on a public forum, be strong enough to handle disagreement.
Personally I think it's weird you've been here for so long yet still haven't grown the slightest bit.
I'm tired of these posts and you are contributing to the reason why I barely take this forum seriously enough to check it anymore.

It's like Vampirism Forum is a complete joke anymore unless Jonathan or Victor comments.

@jonathan: i never said not powerful. As you can read it brought evil eye, bad luck and death into my life. What i said is that i find it a respectless way of working.

I also didnt say o9a is european, i said i found more respect, nobility and grace there.

These things have nothing to do with my cultural background, i am as Dutch as can be, with long roots in this ground.

The only thing i said was that i don't like the witchraft and mentioned why.

@rhea: i think we differ to much to have a real effect on each other. When i move and write here, i get output in my life and online, but also spiritually. I have been thinking about why that may be for us. And the only way i could think of is that the internet brings people together who normally wouldn't connect.

What makes me wonder everytime is why you are waiting for jonathan or victor instead of doing something about it. I really loved your emotional post from a while back. Everybody did actually.

Also why should there be 1 story? we arent that stupid that we arent able to stand next to each other growing our own ways, are we?

Oh and rhea i know who i am, so i dont mind you telling me i have no knowhow. I know my importance in life. That's the only reason why i asked you to go tell sybil when i annoy you. She is the sites moderator and i am most definitely not.

Jonathan wrote:
Have you used your practices of Asetian magick alongside those of Wizardry and Witchcraft? No need to get into detail but if so were you surprised with the outcome?

If you're kind enough to include Tantrika practices in the strictly elemental sense to the Wizardry side, yes very much so. And they're very complimentary.

Just like Padmasambhava was incorportating Bön into cultural ritualistic aspects into the tradition, I feel other different trails might have been left by the Order for the dedicated to sincerely enjoy and utilize making connections as they compliment them in niche aspects. Except partaking best parts of general eastern and western approaches, leaving neither too much room to the student, nor laying out all the map before the student spoiling their mindsets, it provides an organic harmony of both, carefully steering ones's own inner genius by gentle nudges enough leave out other possible connections to other trails & traditions, but masterfully done enough to not let them touch one another and contradict, unless on good purpose to connect them further in higher tenets.

So I am not well versed in the forum to know if we have buddhist practitioners, but I'd daresay with all due respect certain Asetian practices are in fact capable of enhancing many mystical practices of theirs, while others and rest help refine their foundations obviously on correct and base scales. That external use and wise play is actually highly discarded and disregarded in that tradition, reasons of which if we get into might divert further from the topic due to spiritual or metaphysical inclusions.

But I was personally overjoyed to discover such an excellent and precise manual, as I'm always on the hunt for texts that provide balanced, healthy and complete development of one's foundation, something that may seem boring to many seekers, but it is thanks to those unexciting accumulations attainments become mostly a consequence in attunment with Grace of Deity, if well-constructed together with one's inner essence and its secret psyche. But this one especially is capable of taking oneself as far as one lets themselves. So this system holds a special place in my heart already, aside from making sense into connections that fit nowhere else.

And who knows, perhaps if one takes the quality of the cumulative scale far and skillfully enough perhaps it can take attention of those who are emanating similar signals in invisible grades and maybe that is a way for the student of the path to indirectly prove themselves in safe ways, free from all societal influence and grasps of unconscious hands, locked off to those who don't train.

Thank you for allowing us through this topic to voice our thoughts as well as this chance to exchange ideas and the learning opportunity from each other by your interesting and stimulative inquiries always.