Thursian Currents as an Asetianist Study

Em Hotep.

It has been the project of a few us to delve into the dark Norse magickal traditions under the Asetianist kaleidoscopic lens. Here we find, most predominantly, if not the only thing that I've personally found in terms of elaborated grimoire traditions and practices, the domain of Thursian currents. The likes of those expounded by Ekortu (Vexior) and Ljóssál Loðursson.

In the Thursian currents, as they're at least modernly presented under the lead of some of these authors, it contains a rather anti-cosmic view of the world. That is to say, in a Gnostic sense, that they're against, and adversarial towards, the demiurgic power of the Aesir (simplified: gods of civilization and cosmic order) in particular but also the Vanir (simplified: gods of nature), that is to say two of the main categories of gods in the Old Norse pantheon that are said to bring about the creation or uphold parts and functions of it as well as to enforce its cosmic illusions within the human being and her mind which an internal Ragnarök(kr) calls for and seeks to undo unto spiritual acosmic liberation and the return to Ginnungagap (primordial void, the chaos that was before the creation of the worlds by the three brothers of Odin, Vili and Vé - apart from Muspelheim, world of primordial Fire, and Niflheim, world of primordial Ice, that preexisted the creations by these three brothers and from which they themselves even originated in their own genealogies, even being of half Thursian blood). Whereas the Thursar, the Old Norse primordial Giants, whom the Thursian currents venerate, are seen as the more destructive forces raised against that cosmic order of the creation even into the given final culmination of Ragnarök or Ragnarökkr (different etymological meanings based upon individual use and interpretation, where Ragnarök means something akin to the 'Fate of the Gods' and Ragnarökkr means something like 'Twilight of the Gods', which some authors emphasize differently and use accordingly).

However, the Thursar, or Thurs beings, were there before the Aesir, then, and the sources on the genesis of the Vanir seem obscure and not much is known there but we can possibly assume that they came later as well, being gods of nature when the cosmic order had come into being by the three brothers of Odin, Vili and Vé (all three Aesir and often seen as the prime demiurgic forces). The Aesir had much of their genealogy actually in the Thurs beings themselves - the primordial Giants before the birth of the gods, similar to the Titans in Greek mythology.

My questions here, to start a forum discussion, would incline themselves towards the nature of anti-cosmism but also all else related to the main subject. There's much potential here that can be developed upon.

First of, for those of you who are involved, we've discussed a bit about the nature of anti-cosmism and how that could be seen differently, even with speculations of the Thursar themselves being akin to draconian entities in other mythologies. Maybe that the Thursar aren't necessarily these "giants" in a fictional sense either, as large and tall brutes, at all, but actually very formless beings of void, chaos and, yes, adversarial magickal power as well as primordial wisdom. That might come as a necessary introduction in the etymological sense, where the later development as "giants" comes from Latin, as well as Greek mythology, together with the fictional stories of collected folklore from the devout Christian "Brothers Grimm" during the 19th century, that all melted into a hodgepodge of confused misunderstanding regarding the popular conception of the Old Norse Giants as well as other creatures in those mythologies, like the classical trolls for instance.

Also, as another note, I believe the roots of anti-cosmism in particular within the Thursian currents, while not explicitly stated as such in the Old Norse accounts apart from being, for example, interpretable as implicit within the final event of Ragnarök, come from a heavy background in anti-cosmic Satanism with authors such as Ekortu indeed, although they might have wished to separate themselves completely, in their Satanism, from Satanism, as it's too tied into Christianity with being like a shadow side of it, into the creation of a form of current devoid of any Christian elements or allusions whatsoever. At least from what I've read regarding the modern emergence of Thursatru.

This raises two questions, though: the anti-cosmism (and how it's to be interpreted and seen), as well as the spiritual legitimacy in the foundation of the Thursian current(s). Personally I believe there is certainly strong magick to the Thursian current(s), and real validity to many of their entities, beings or deities, and it's my belief that while Thursatru itself is a modern invention, more so, the beings that they work with are very old like the Norse mythology itself indicates. However I'd like to ask others, including more experienced members of this forum, on that point in particular, and open up debate for it.

And as a final but simple question: as the title of the topic itself, how do you believe it aligns with Asetianism, if it does? The crossings, and potential verges, in between...

I agree with what you said, in the sense that while traditions such as Thursatru are modern, the beings they work with are quite ancient. Also I think it’s worth to mention that Thursatru is only one of the several paths working with the Thursar, not the only tradition, and one can operate very deeply with them without identifying as Thursatru.
I say this especially because Thursatru originated from a background of gnostic Satanism and the anti-cosmic philosophies of the Temple of the Black Light, however there have been people working with the Thursar and devoting to those dark powers long before them. Still their writings are very much worth a read, particularly those by Ekortu, and he is genuine in his devotion.

As for your final question, from what I see and know about Thursian Sorcery I would say it can be very compatible with Asetianism, especially if the magician or witch has a solid foundation in Asetianism that allows them to go through the modern material on the Thursian tradition as well as the older Eddas and dissect it from the higher perspective of the Asetians, shaping it to the immortal purpose and understanding of the Asetians. That seems very possible but also hard work, make no mistake. Potentially dangerous as well, which should be underlined, since some of the beings that one may seek communion with on such a dark path are incredibly powerful and don’t go easy on initiates, such as Angrboda, Hel, Surtr, Fenrir and Jormungandr.

This is no silly Primal Craft operating with a group egregore earthed by a mortal man, these are primordial elementals of fire and ice that are not linked to creation, so extremely destructive even if also immensely wise.

There are others here with vastly more experience than me when it comes to the dark side of Norse magick and seidr, who might have valuable details to add in due time if your studies develop in that direction. This is very much an European tradition.

Thank you for your reply, Jonathan, beautiful points and very valuable indeed! I will contemplate it a little bit.

Yes, I seem to be under the impression that these are traditions that very much fall under the secretive European occult underground, with very real forces, so they deserve great respect.

The Ice and Fire magick (thursian sorcery, fjölkyngi, seiðr, rúna, trolldom) of the ᚦurs, or Thursar, as the Old Norse called them but that were also known by other names in different cultures, is not only compatible with Asetianism, as it can be wielded through Asetian gateways to a higher degree of gnosis and empowerment not at the reach of those that do not grasp the sacred Asetian mysteries. Some of those powers are loyal to Primordial Aset.

Tread carefully.

I'm sure that when I say this I speak for more than myself: you've both left great commentary that helps many of our questions immensely, or how to fit it within an Asetian context and perspective and so giving it even greater purpose. Thank you to both of you, Victor and Jonathan. Em Hotep.

I agree. Thank you both to Victor and Jonathan for your awesome comments, they are quite helpful and also inspiring toward our studies!

Glad that it could be of help!

Em Hotep, and well met yet again... on this thread.

I have one main subject for consideration in regards to this, the Old Norse dark side tradition. It concerns the runes, particularly Elder Futhark.

Namely, this was my postulation before: since I began showing interest in the Thursian studies and magickal practice, I notice and think after a while that perhaps deepening runic knowledge and gnosis can be a paramount step in the right direction on this road. Of course it is, but I'm speaking in a fundamental way as concerns the Old Norse, and then dark side of it, tradition. Why do I say this? Well, specifically... as my postulation goes... the Old Ones, as are called Thurs in the Old Norse worldview but found under different names in other cultures (most likely), but since we're working with the Old Norse entryway to their domain... and to me it appears that runic magick holds key role within this paradigm... as well as deeply rooted gnostic keys within the context, mastering runic magick becomes critical here, not just as a theoretical part time knowledge but deeply embedded realization of magickal implications in the overall praxis and that's also a big part of the Old Norse tradition generally apparently as it definitely seems to me. I would hold that the runes in themselves can potentially go further into the Thursian domain as seemingly, most likely indeed, originating from there. This isn't a controversial statement at all following the line of reasoning of Thursian authors on their interpretations of the way in which Odin was said to have gotten - not invented - the runes in the first place through his self-sacrifice from going into the deep down below of the Chaotic Void of Ginnungagap, Primordial Chaos as postulated being the original place before everything else came into existence where the Old Ones live - in their respective polar worlds of Fire (Muspelheim) and Ice (Niflheim) - and predated the younger gods (like the Aesir, including Odin himself, in Old Norse mythology), when he hang himself on the tree said to have been pierced by his own spear. Thus, to me, I would sometimes label communication, subconsciously, through the runes, to this domain, as "whispers of the Thurs". Rune literally translates to mystery, secret, whisper (also, if I'm not mistaken), etc. [...]

[...] That concludes the summary of my overall postulation... the runes serve as potential vehicles through which you can communicate with, divine, open up gateways to, invoke, and magickally interact with these forces in a very real way, through different runic formulas or subconscious and/or intuitive inspirations - active and passive ways or methods in which to work with it. Hence a suitable label - "whispers of the Thurs" - if applied and interpreted within this context or worked with in this way. I believe certain authors have described similar concepts though so I don't wish to claim it as an original idea really, but in either case its knowledge might do certain service. Ljóssál's "Ginnrúnbók: The Book of Primeval Whispers" itself seems to carry similar implication for instance.

That's not all but it's a relevant part, of course. Others have also spoken on the dark side of the runes themselves, mentioned by different authors, implied in the Elder Futhark. My view is that the runes are what they are essentially and they may connect with different forces - Aesir or Thurs for instance - depending on what you align your practice with or in which dimension you connect with the runes. It seems that they're more of a universal language, at least to me, but if you connect with their hidden face, their darker secrets, their buried truths underneath the lighter aspects or interpretations, going deeper down with their roots through the soil of the dark unconscious to the original place from beyond into the unfathomable and unspeakable Void from where they are said to have been derived, then one may reach the Thursian implications thereof which is another necessitated part of my postulation. Keep in mind that's just a thought though for the most part, a theory of mine even if it's very likely there are authors who've touched on this subject in a very similar way since I'm aware of a few books out there on it but I haven't read them but only about them, but it seems likely and I come here merely to inquire about it.

How do you view the runes and their prominence within the Old Norse dark tradition? Surely they're used in elaborate bindrunes, as composite sigils of power, etc., and other formulaic or even simpler uses - yet its knowledge or gnosis must not be underestimated as a path of certain sacrifice to learn the deeper one wishes to go into their mysteries.