Guardian's Detachment and Grounding Stones

wow..that is just sad...
Are you a mother?

Hellen wrote:What draws a newborn to his mother that is necessity , that is not love .

I can agree with you, Hellen.

Aghrab

I'm sorry you do Aghrab. Apparently 6 billion human beings are just tools and vessels for the Asetian Family and it seems there is no love... But I do believe that before one make such a statement "What draws a newborn to his mother that is necessity, that is not love", one should experience it on their own because those are quite big words.

After all that's been said in this thread I feel I can not continue my journey alongside with you guys. I choose not to trap my path in set to stone concepts, I choose to keep an open mind and free spirit. I will not push the Asetian Bible aside though, I'll just let it talk to me as my one of a kind mentor.
I wish you all good luck.

Georgiana

Georgiana, it saddens me to read your post. Did you not learned yet the power of a community? We are not here to agree with each other, we are here to learn from one another. If you really think you cannot continue this path simply because several people in this forum believe that the relationship between a child and their parents is not love, then really, you do not belong here. Not because someone disagrees with you, but because you are too weak to face different opinions and too closed minded to accept that reality may not be as you always pictured it. But I believe you are not like that. As we have said in many other threads, it is the diversity that makes us so unique, and no one has true absolute answers. We all interpret the Asetian Bible in different ways, and only Luis Marques could actually give us a truthful and definitive answer. Not us... we just speculate, analyze, study and debate. If a different set of opinions is enough to push someone aside from evolving as a group and not taking their own journey alongside us all, as you said, then really something is very wrong and maybe you need to review your own internal framework.
I hope you reconsider this position of yours...

Do not be sorry that I agree with Hellen, I am proud of the way I think and feel. Seems like you are simply too closed minded to accept some hard facts and truth, so I agree that it is best for you and your evolution, to step aside from us, as you say, instead of continuously trying to think, and somewhat hope, that the Guardians would have more heart towards their biological parents, being a subject that seems to triggers something in you. Yes, it is quite cruel, and yes, it is quite inhuman... but well, they are not humans, not are they angels... this kind of truth is not to be seen or understood by everyone.

I bid you farewell.

Aghrab

This is unbelievable. I am the one that's closed minded? I could not take a "maybe" out of you Aghrab. How can one evolve if his or her thoughts and ideas are untouchable and there is no room for questioning and maybe accepting a different idea, how can you develop?
How can you continue insulting me like that? This does not make you strong or wise, it makes you very week in my eyes right now. You could not fight fair in this debate for one second. I had the chance to insult you back on every single reply you posted, but instead I gave you different points of view just to get exactly the same answer back, and I'm the one not open minded. Please rethink what you are writing, don't give me the same "my brain is washed" reply, not when your philosophy it seems it is Growing.

geo wrote:Apparently 6 billion human beings are just tools and vessels for the Asetian Family and it seems there is no love...

I don't believe any Asetian believes that mankind exists to work as vessels for their own Lives. Human beings have their own agendas, their own destinies...
Asetians simply take advantage of their own powers over the reincarnation cycles, turning humans into vessels, so they can be brought to life. This does not mean that is the sole purpose of humans, obviously.
However, you are simply focusing too much on motherhood, probably because of being a mother yourself, and overvaluing it. That way of thinking is not compatible with the whole concept of reincarnation. Reincarnation is about evolution and the Self. Reincarnation is what sets the parents as mere vessels, not the Asetians. If you believe that you actually live several lives, in an always constant evolution, then you clearly discover that your parents aren't that important as you imagined, since they were one of many... everyone has many parents, because everyone lives many times. I am sorry if spirituality is not as pretty and pink as you first pictured it, where your daughter was only yours, but a fact is that you are probably one of her many mothers... if this is too hard and painful for you to grasp, then probably you should give it a try to one of the monotheistic faiths. They will surely tell you what you want to hear...
But just don't state something as you did in my quoted sentence from you. That is misleading for young Asetianists, who may get the impression that Asetianists and Asetians see humans as mere 6 billion vessels at their disposal. Things are not that simple and not so straight-forward. As far as Guardians, their inhuman minds will continue to bring this sort of flaming opinions from many people, and disapproval by most of society. It is in their nature, the beings of Flame.

Furthermore I used the same weapon, the Asetian Bible plus personal experience in this debate, just to hit a wall. I only wanted to take the subject one level up.

geo wrote:I had the chance to insult you back on every single reply you posted,

You were never, as I even pointed out, insulted, whatsoever. None of us are here to insult one another, or insult people who do not agree with us. I may have been quite harsh, but that is how I deal with such weakness of “I don't like how you talk, I am leaving”. You are welcome to remain with us and have your own opinion.

Anyways, reading your post, all I can say is for you to calm down instead of being so moved that you insult even myself... “my brain is washed”? Please, be more respectful. By what you say here, you are saying that the Asetian Bible brainwashes people, and I simply will not take that.

Aghrab

I think though, that you mustn't overlook the importance of the parent in the early development of a newly reincarnated Asetian. The parent must be special, even close to Asetian level, to be a good guiding sword for an Asetian's life. Under that perspective, while the parent is no longer needed after development, they are not useless or requiring utter detachment, as likely they would be able to understand the growing Asetian, and offer a reasonable viewpoint to things the Asetian handles.

"You were never, as I even pointed out, insulted"
"Seems like you are simply too closed minded"
You know, when I bite back, I bite 10 times harder...
Everything I wrote was a conclusion I draw after all the statements posted.

geo wrote:I'm sorry you do Aghrab. Apparently 6 billion human beings are just tools and vessels for the Asetian Family and it seems there is no love... But I do believe that before one make such a statement "What draws a newborn to his mother that is necessity, that is not love", one should experience it on their own because those are quite big words.

There was a topic about Asetians as parents somewhere , and I already expressed my oppinion .Experiencing both sides as child and parent ,does not lead to different feelings in my oppinion .I am in fact sorry that you don't realise how in the matter of feelings there is no place for maybe's , feelings they are or they are not ,unmovable I can say .There is indeed change and evolution but i don't believe that sentence in the Asetian Bible regards feelings .

Hellen

"Experiencing both sides as child and parent ,does not lead to different feelings in my oppinion" .
You should experience it first before once again you draw such a conclusion.
"I am in fact sorry that you don't realise how in the matter of feelings there is no place for maybe's , feelings they are or they are not ,unmovable I can say" .
The MAYBE was for a statement, not for feelings.
"There is indeed change and evolution but i don't believe that sentence in the Asetian Bible regards feelings" .
I never said it's for those feelings in particular, but for the entire
book. It was a reply towards the statement made concerning the Viperines.

geo wrote:"Experiencing both sides as child and parent ,does not lead to different feelings in my oppinion" .
You should experience it first before once again you draw such a conclusion.
.

Geo ,that proves once more how you are not able to accept other's opinion .What makes you think we are all the same ? and what makes you think that i did not experience both sides before i speak ,or that I'm saying just 'words' and 'ideas' that are due to change ?

"Geo ,that proves once more how you are not able to accept other's opinion .What makes you think we are all the same" ?
I never said that.
"and what makes you think that i did not experience both sides before i speak"
So how do you feel about your child not loving you, but using you out of necessity?
"or that I'm saying just 'words' and 'ideas' that are due to change" ?
I honestly do not know what you mean by that.

geo wrote: "So how do you feel about your child not loving you, but using you out of necessity?
.

Well, that is not my concern .

geo wrote:"You were never, as I even pointed out, insulted"
"Seems like you are simply too closed minded"
You know, when I bite back, I bite 10 times harder...
Everything I wrote was a conclusion I draw after all the statements posted.

Saying that you are being closed minded is not an insult... this is becoming too childish, and is not what this community is about...

Aghrab

What is this community about Aghrab? It's obviously not about
respecting ones views and opinions since it's either you take a NO,
WHAT I SAY IS RIGHT, or you are being childish and closed minded. Where is all the
praised let's all develop together idea? You can always let it go you know...

I will not comment on what you wrote back Hellen. I do not want to start another debate if I am to hit a wall once again.

Now, now... let's just try to reason.

I do not know how many people in this Forum have children, but certainly we all here have or have had parents.

Now, from a human point of view, if you analyze it coldly, and given that one's parents are good people (which is not always the case), the main reasons for loving your parents after you have reached a certain independence, are mostly feelings of attachment that have absolutely nothing to do with genuine and freely-chosen love and which aren't all noble: dutifulness, gratitude, guilt, compassion, familiarity, routine, tradition, not to mention material interest and the need for protection... all feelings that are created and nurtured by our society's family-based pattern.

Not to say that family is not a good thing. It is probably one of the most important things one can count on throughout their entire life, but it is an enormous fallacy to consider it THE most important. In societies and communities where the impulse is to grow within the group and be part of a herd, that's how it works. And little progress will come of that.

If you seek personal evolution, that would always have to go before family. It is not necessarily cruel, it is just how it is, and any parent who understands this concept must also understand that - just like genuine love means letting your loved one be free - your child is not yours and has never been. It will always be a much greater reason to feel proud to know that your child has evolved beyond what most of those six billion people would even dream of, than to have them bring you flowers on Mothers's day.

SImilarly when it comes to one's parents.

This thread is rapidly degraging into the ridiculous. What a shame.

Geo, we have all at some time, questioned something within these walls, and have had disagreeance towards what we have said...(just take a glance around the wrist tattoo thread) but the whole point of developing is in learning how to also accept and acknowledge others points of view.
You have not been insulted in any way as far as I can see - although your harsh words in places could have deserved it.

I personally love this forum. It's maturity, it's ease of debate, and non-judgemental attitude towards others' opinions and points of view.

Aghrab is as entitled to her opinions, as you are. And is as free to expres them, as you are. This doesnt make her childish...it makes her liberated enough within herself to feel comfortable saying what she thinks..and not what she thinks others want to hear.

And these walls you keep hitting geo...you have built them yourself.
..................................................................................................

Anyway, pushing this back on topic, I'd like to say that I agree with both Syrianeh and Aghrab.
(I'll add some more of my own thoughts later)

Sigh...
You are a bit off
the subject Syrianeh, your point of view is not quite part of the
matter at hand, but I will not entirely contradict you. I know how
society functions, I know the patterns, I see them every day, but I
also know that the essence of love between a child and his/ her parents
never fades. But then, what's the difference between a right
human family and the Asetian Family? Isn't Aset, the Mother, the most
important element, the most cherished and loved one? Aren't the
lineages, her children, parts of Herself? Don't they love Her as She
loves them back? Would it be then an enormous fallacy to consider the
Asetian Family THE most important?.. wouldn't that, accordingly,
manifest itself as a herd, a family-based pattern?
We were
discussing the love that children feel for their parents before
reaching the teenage years, the time of independence, inner evolution
and detachment with the hopes of finding their own path; the love a
Guardian might feel for his or her biological parents at times.

"the whole point of developing is in learning how to also accept and acknowledge others points of view".
Once again...as long as it's your point of view that needs to be
accepted, no other point of view is even considered. Can you even see
my point of view?

"You have not been insulted in any way as far as I can see - although your harsh words in places could have deserved it".
I see you like to contradict yourself as well.

"I personally love this forum"
I never said I'm against it.

It's maturity, it's ease of debate, and
non-judgemental attitude towards others' opinions and points of view".
...I wish..

"Aghrab is as entitled to her opinions, as you are. And is as free to
expres them, as you are. This doesnt make her childish...it makes her
liberated enough within herself to feel comfortable saying what she
thinks..and not what she thinks others want to hear"
I don't want to hear things, I think it's quite clear that I have my
personal outrageous ideas. Sigh...I never called her childish, that's
what she called me.

What walls? Please point them out, it seems you already figured me out.

geo wrote:the subject Syrianeh, your point of view is not quite part of the
matter at hand,

Perhaps, but I was just trying to explain how from a subjective point of view, and not even going into the realm of the Asetian mind, one can easily figure out why a child's genuine love for their parents is not always such.

geo wrote:Would it be then an enormous fallacy to consider the
Asetian Family THE most important?.. wouldn't that, accordingly,
manifest itself as a herd, a family-based pattern?

The Asetian family, for an Asetian, would be the spiritual family, the family and origin of the soul, and that is something entirely different from the biological family. So yes, that would indeed be the most important.