The Viperine and the Virgin

This is quite a strange and complex subject for debate, however, a very interesting one.

As we all may know, Viperines, especially Elders, will not likely, or never, accept an impure Asetian or humans as their donor and someone they will be sexually involved with, if it was not themselves taking their purity and innocence from them.
Keeping this in mind, a few questions came to my mind. Imagine an Elder or a very important Asetian, or even better, imagine Master Marques himself. The Viperine would surely have a 'Lover', someone very special to them, someone who has spend all lives by their side, at each incarnation... Now, I am sure that no Asetian would incarnate at the exact same time as their soulmate or close allies... I believe incarnation is not that much of a certain thing when it comes to timing, so imagine that he, the Viperine, was yet waiting for his woman.
And I am saying “he” because I believe a female Asetian would never reject her soulmate, just because the one taking the purity of her lover would be another woman. Also, Viperine or not, women tend to endure more pain and suffering than men can handle, so I believe this natural loyalty and stremgth within Asetian women would always keep them away from any unloyal acts, even if they are suffering from low energy and needing to sexually feed, when having their soulmates far. It is even possible to happen, a case of a male Viperine needing to sexually feed from someone who isn't their soulmate, and very is likely, due to the fact that a Viperine would need a sexual donor, being or not being their Lover and their wives. They need it to survive... especially if their soulmate would have not incarnated around the same time as them to meet them at the beginning stages of the awakening, when their energy needs begin to grow strong.

So, what if the female Asetian, wife and Lover of the Viperine, would incarnate years after the Viperine does, and somehow, for one reason or another, loses her virginity with another man? Would the Viperine ever accept her, if they do find one another and she admitting the past? Would he ever live this life with her, and see past the impurities? What if she lost her virginity against her Will, without any feelings towards the one who stole it from her? It is a very complex subject, as I already mentioned, and the answer will surely depend on many factors.

As always, I am looking forward to seeing this thread growing with your thoughts...

Aghrab

Aghrab wrote:So, what if the female Asetian, wife and Lover of the Viperine, would incarnate years after the Viperine does, and somehow, for one reason or another, loses her virginity with another man? Would the Viperine ever accept her, if they do find one another and she admitting the past? Would he ever live this life with her, and see past the impurities?

There is nothing to accept. If that being is indeed his soulmate, and was the wife and lover of the Viperine for so many lifetimes, she would be ultimately loyal no matter what. There is no chance for her not to be a virgin. You are confusing Asetians with humans, they are different from all of the possibilities and chances of mundane society. If that girl had sex with another man, that only means she is not his soulmate.

Viperine's lovers, particularly in the case of the Elders, are never that weak and don't do those sorts of mistakes. They are above it, and their loyalty is unconditional... making it quite easy for the Viperine and the Aset Ka to spot them. If there is any uncertainty, any mistakes, any impurities as you said... then she will never be anyone to the Viperine, at least not in the ways you are talking about, as a true lover. Maybe she can be food to him, but that would be all.

I believe Aghrab is not really getting the concept between Viperines and how their lovers truly are. She said "admitting the past", when she is missing the whole point. That is not even something to wonder about, the possibility of someone not admitting her full past before a Viperine is not even a question. Viperines, above all others, value and cherish loyalty and honesty, there is no girl that could possibility think of getting near or intimate with a Viperine holding any secrets. Unless she craves for eternal pain... lol

Also, I fully agree with Victor, I can't imagine an Elder Viperine to fall in love for a girl that lost her virginity to another. That would only make him move over, easily, and go find his TRUE lover, not a fake that had sex with some other being. You're not really understanding Asetianism, when it comes to Viperines and love. Or what it means to belong to a Viperine. Might be hard for you to fully comprehend this, being it so extreme and unique, but I am sure that a Guardian would make things very clear for you about this subject.

Victor, nice post, however, I was also throwing in the possibility of her being raped, which could not be something she could control, being or not his “eternal love”.

Jonathan, I believe there is a better, more mature and polite way for you to explain how you feel on this subject instead of saying countless times “Aghrab knows nothing about Asetianism”. This is not how VF works. I found that quite rude of you, how you simply assume something without knowing if I even have the answer to this or am only trying to know what you all think, as I do with most of my opened threads. So, think well before you rudely accuse.
Nice post, anyways.

Aghrab

Victor wrote:then she will never be anyone to the Viperine, at least not in the ways you are talking about, as a true lover. Maybe she can be food to him, but that would be all.

Are you saying that you believe she may have a chance at being a donor, to the Viperine? I was sure he could never accept or enjoy someone who has a stained energy... no matter how much he may feel for her. I do not believe it would taste good to the Viperine, who can very intensely tell everything about someone's energy.

Aghrab wrote:Jonathan, I believe there is a better, more mature and polite way for you to explain how you feel on this subject instead of saying countless times “Aghrab knows nothing about Asetianism”. This is not how VF works. I found that quite rude of you, how you simply assume something without knowing if I even have the answer to this or am only trying to know what you all think, as I do with most of my opened threads. So, think well before you rudely accuse.
Nice post, anyways.

I was not immature at all, nor was I rude. Now you're answer seems like I hit a nerve. Calm down, I made no accusations the way you are getting it. I just replied my interpretation from your misunderstanding of donors to Viperines, nothing else. If you find my opinion rude, now that would be your own problem, and kinda shows who really is being immature, if you can't handle someone else's opinion over yours.

There is no need for calming down, Jonathan, you do not have the power to hit my nerves. I am simply pointing out something that I do not believe should be repeated in this community, being one of the leading forums when it comes to the subject of vampirism. You can, of course, say that I may not know anything about Asetianism, however to say that in such an arrogant way, to me, is what makes me have to speak out before you do the same towards another user.

Aghrab

You're speaking out for nothing, since I never intended to be arrogant, but just to present my view over your post, which is the whole purpose of a forum. You are the one who keeps calling childish every time someone presents an opinion against yours. You did it now, for no reason, and you did it not long ago against geo on the thread on Guardian's Detachment, just because she did not agree with your own opinions about it. This is a place for debate, and if you are going to call immature to everyone that disagrees with you, you just came to the wrong forum. That is not a sign of evolution, at all. Somehow it still sounds to me that I hit a personal nerve... but let's move over it.

Personally, I see this argument on who is childish and who is less evolved to be the true waste of time. So lets not continue with those comments, this forum deserves better. Both of you.

What I wish to add is that I don't believe using Luis Marques as an example in this thread to be a very good idea. We are talking about something that is very intimate, and I am sure that discussing his private life, his sexual choices or his opinions on virginity is not something that the Aset Ka would find noble of us, Asetianists, to do. He is the most respected being, worldwide, when it comes to Asetianism, so I believe we should discuss this theme on a more general fashion and not bring up names or particular Asetians. I believe you will both agree with this.

Victor, I did not ask for us to only focus on Luis Marques, but any higher Viperine.

Aghrab

Personally, though I might be wrong, I think Asetianists would be quite above physical purity and virginity. Being an Asetian is a trait of the soul, not of the body, and I am sure it is not something that comes right out from the start, as, as we know, it takes time to wake up to it.

I believe that true loyalty and purity are things of the mind and spirit; whatever is done with the body, especially before awakening, belongs to the physical, human side and should not be accountable.

Syrianeh wrote:Personally, though I might be wrong, I think Asetianists would be quite above physical purity and virginity. Being an Asetian is a trait of the soul, not of the body, and I am sure it is not something that comes right out from the start, as, as we know, it takes time to wake up to it.

I believe that true loyalty and purity are things of the mind and spirit; whatever is done with the body, especially before awakening, belongs to the physical, human side and should not be accountable.

What you say does make sense, however, there is a point where who someone is, and how loyal the woman is, cannot be not enough to please the Viperine, no matter even if she would be his true Love. This comes down to how the Viperine would feel when it comes to her energy, he surely would not be able to ignore the feeling of knowing someone else has taken her purity. It may also not be mentioned that deeply within the AB, but Viperines are very, very possessive beings, making this issue even more great to their eyes... something that when it comes to purity, many in outside world and not the Asetian one, cannot see as that great of an issue.

I also agree with you, that what may have happened in the past could belong to the 'human side' of the unawakened Asetian, however I cannot see the mind of an Asetian allowing another to take her purity... I believe it is something defined in them, even before their awakening... but, as I said, if the purity was taken by force, is where I believe this entire issue becomes highly confusing. Since the Viperine would not be able to fully blame the Asetian, since it was not done at her Will, but at the same time he could not ignore the painful truth, that she indeed is stained...
Personally I am somewhat sure that no matter if her virginity was taken by force or by her Will, the Viperine would still not be able to accept her, since even if he forgives her for the fact that she has lost it, he still could not put aside the energetic issue within this situation.

Aghrab

Very interesting subject here, although a bit confusing since the answer will depend on many factors as it was mentioned before.

I have two questions, though, that I would like to know what you all think. I believe that when it comes to the three lineages, the Guardians would be the last ones to be able to be so unawakened to actually allow someone other than their own soul mates to take their virginity. I believe it would be more common for this mistake to happen to non-Elder Asetians, or, maybe Concubines... What do you think?

Also, I personally see Guardians as the best example of Lovers and the most admirable women when it comes to knowing what Love is, and for many reasons, I see them as woman that will always, no matter what, stick to the one that is their true love, the one that they always had... it is something very definitive in them, to my eyes. What do you think on this?

Aghrab, I see your point too, and I agree, though I find the value placed upon physical purity very archaic for our present times, and Asetians change with the times as well.

Still, I see the spiritual value of it, the sexual power and, in a way, the poetry, and for someone as highly sensitive as an Asetian - especially a Viperine - it could be a treasure. However, an Asetian - let's say, a Concubine - has been through several lives and reencarnations. Where does sexual purity really begin? at the beginning of each human life? Would the Concubine stay a virgin beginning at each reencarnation until their Soulmate appears? what if they never do? Just a thought.

Dreamer, I too see the Guardians as the most pure, caste and loyal of the three Lineages.

Syrianeh wrote: However, an Asetian - let's say, a Concubine - has been through several lives and reencarnations. Where does sexual purity really begin? at the beginning of each human life? Would the Concubine stay a virgin beginning at each reencarnation until their Soulmate appears? what if they never do? Just a thought.

Very interesting point you made... I also wonder the same. I mean... imagine one of her lives, the Concubine, she has lost her virginity for one reason or another with someone other than her soul mate... would it matter throughout all of her lives?

I have to say, the idea that a Viperine would virtually shun his soulmate because of infidelity (putting aside rape) is saddening.

As Syrianeh said, these are modern times, and considering that Asetians are beings of change and evolution - actively encouraging it with their every action as per their very nature - the mindset suggested here, conflicts with that somewhat.

The pursuit of finding ones soulmate is not Asetian specific. Humans also have a deep set yearning to find the one soul that completes them - although this is of course not on the same spiritual/energetic/emotional level of an Asetian. But the sentiment is the same and can be the cause of many a broken relationship on the individuals behalf, in searching for that special something, that just isnt there. But I digress...

Having said that, I think I understand what Aghrab is trying to convey, and the fact that Elder Viperines were the focus of this debate, and not newborn Asetians so much.

As an Elder, one is born aware of their nature, free from the trials and tribulations of having to discover their True Self over a period of indefinite time. Life is very different for an Elder.
Therefore, it would stand to reason that despite any distance between two soulmates, one of their greatest drives should be in re-establishing that union between them.
In this case, I think Elder Asetians would abstain from developing relationships with others on any level.

In the case of an Elder Viperines' soulmate giving themself to another (assuming that the other was also an Elder), I believe the sense of betrayl would create a huge barrier between them that would be difficult to overcome.

It does raise the question though...Is sexual purity a thing of the body, or of the mind? Taking into consideration that the body is simply a vessel and at times, can be used as such for whatever purpose.

Talibah wrote:It does raise the question though...Is sexual purity a thing of the body, or of the mind? Taking into consideration that the body is simply a vessel and at times, can be used as such for whatever purpose.

I see sexual purity as a thing of the body, mind and the Soul of someone. Body, because of the obvious physical changed of the entire body after the virginity has been taken... also because it is a very physical thing, to have sex with someone. Mind, because it is something that effects the mind of the female, making her less innocent in feel and thoughts. And, of course, Soul, because the fingerprint of the one who took her virginity will remain mixed within her... making her Soul also an impure one. However, I would see it more of a body and Soul thing, when we look at it as a long-term issue, since the body will soon dissipate, but the mind and Soul will carry on to the next lives.

Aghrab

Those are good reasons, Aghrab, but referring to the Soul, what of Love?
Understanding that the fingerprint of the individual who takes the females virginity remains within her, surly on that basis, if there is no true love towards that person, then that will also show...as all true emotions are reflected upon the soul?

What I am asking is this, and it is just a thought, if a Viperine is that sensitive towards the imprinted marks upon his soulmates soul, then whilst knwoing she had lost her virginity to another would be hard, would it lessen the blow if he were to see that on her behalf it was simply an act with no emotion involved?

Also, I'd like to ask whether Viperines tend to have other Viperines as their soulmates, or whether the lineages intermingle so to speak?

Dont get me wrong, I do agree that for an Elder to know their soulmate has lost soemthing so precious as her (or his, lets not forget this goes both ways) virginity to another is difficult and the ramifications thereof are complex, what of 'takes one to know one' understanding each others nature, as varied as they are, and taking into account individual circumstances?

I tend to agree with Syrianeh on this .
Love between Soulmates in my understanding is much above physical dimension , and I can't believe one could deny his or her soulmate ( there are Viperine women also as I know ) -who is Unique -just for this reason, that is not possible .( and then what ? change with another who is virgin ?)


True also that Guardians have the inborn qualities , the strength to wait and search for the One ,i believe there is this 'call ' inside them , not to forget they also are highly selective and elitist when it comes to feeding.

But while Guardians are beings of so high sensuality , and sexuality I would not exclude the possibility of being involved ,at physical level before to meet their One.
Also I would consider as most important for the Soul to be untouched , I wouldn't consider this as a 'stain' as long as the soul is untouched .There are other things that make one to be stained and disgusting to feed from ,in my oppinion.

Also not all Guardians have Soulmates , do we consider those Guardians spend reincarnation after reincarnation, untill having the chance of meeting the One without havin sex ,while this is their favourite way of feeding .I wonder.





Hellen

Hellen wrote:But while Guardians are beings of so high sensuality , and sexuality I would not exclude the possibility of being involved ,at physical level before to meet their One.

This kind of makes sense... but I believe the power of their loyalty is way stronger than the power of their sexuality.

Dreamer wrote:

Hellen wrote:But while Guardians are beings of so high sensuality , and sexuality I would not exclude the possibility of being involved ,at physical level before to meet their One.

This kind of makes sense... but I believe the power of their loyalty is way stronger than the power of their sexuality.

There is no doubt about that .But i see no logic in coming to this conclusion from what I said .
That statement was about Guardians who do not have a Soul Mate .

Also sex is not always Love , and for a vampire ,i think, does not necessary involve feelings , even when losing virginity ,could be just sexual feeding and experimenting without any emotional bond or creating any links ,and i think this is more likely to happen when first discovering vampiric nature , than later when they become more themselves , and more selective.

About Loyalty .Not being virgin I do not have knowledge if it was condemned in Egypt , but adultery was punished by death ,because it is betrayal , it happens after the two meet each other.

Would for example AsetKa consider you not loyal because you were ,let's say ,a christian before . No .You did not have the chance to know the Asetians in this life.Are you considered dirty or stained because of previously being blind ? I don't think so .You have the one chance , but you have to cherish this chance .

There is another question I have , what if one incarnates under a different gender ,being a male in female flesh ?
What happens then with this virginity issue ?
Is that important any more ?
Is it possible that this virginity to be more a condition of the soul, more of a symbol, an atribute of the soul ?

I agree with both of Syrianeh's posts. And any issues regarding sexual purity and virginity seem to me to be heavily influenced by Catholicism and patriarchal attempts to control a woman's body. Particularly in an unawakened Asetian.

Aghrab, I would imagine the issue to more sensitive if a Viperine and, say, a Concubine in a committed relationship found their partner/soulmate compromised the trust between them. But, I question if that happened whether the partner was truly a longtime soulmate.

I would imagine that this applies to both male or female Viperines.

Greetings to all.

Let's put it plain and simple.
When a female's virginity is taken, she will be highly affected spiritually, mentally and physically. Obviously, the pain the soulmate will go through will depend on the soulmate's spiritual sensitivity. Other thing that should be taken under account is the female's sensitivity in the time before meeting her soulmate. Of course that if the female wasn't Awakened, it would be hard for the soulmate to blame her. It's not her fault. But of course the pain will depend on the soulmate's spiritual sensitivity.
About Viperines, they are highly sensitive, and will notice and find the highly stabbing pain. If she's an Elder, she would naturally have kept herself, having no excuse. If not, I would point towards forgiveness, but it would nevertheless be very hard. Anyways, forgiveness for what? She hadn't even met Him before in this life. It's a difficult matter.

When we talk about the virginity of a male, it is different. A male hardly has any spiritual change after loosing virginity. It doesn't mark him as much as a female. The consequences wouldn't be as harsh. An explanation?
The male is the one who gets their through penetration and ejaculation (active), which means he leaves a high quantity of energy to be digested by the female. This happens either energetically as physically. Female will have a natural reception.
A male after sexual intercourse doesn't have any difference, everything will go on naturally afterward; nothing came in, it just came out, and truth be said, it always comes out because it's produced in enormous quantities, in a daily cycle.
Women are different, and work in a monthly cycle.
Ok, so this is it, this would be the cure; everything here would be solved for the female, with the use of a condom, right? Nay. Besides sperm, there is sexual energy, which will go beyond the physical barrier of a condom with intent. Since the female is receptive to the sexual act, she will want the male to go beyond the barrier, at least mentally and spiritually. So...

It's an issue begging for a lot of meditation from everyone.

Best regards,
Karnath.

All I can say :if these two are Soulmates , as long they are alive ..the story is not finished .Their story never ends .To recognize one's Soulmate is not always simple , imense is the pain as well as imense is the pleasure both part of Alchemy between them . It has to be discovered and learned only by them alone the meaning of Love , if they are Soulmates ... or just an ordinary couple ...
Even pain has it's beauty ,sometimes ...


Hellen