asetian and luciferianism help...

Talibah this is what has made my mind up:

For someone that joined this forum presenting himself as an Asetianist
and that goes by in countless other forums across the web, with a
myriad of other handles, presenting himself as a long time Asetianist,
you show here yourself as a fake. Your judgment has nothing of an
Asetianist, and you embarass the vision of real Asetianists out there.
From someone your age I would except a more balanced mind and evolution
than jumping through mindsets all the time. But let me guess, now you
stopped being an Asetianist and became a Luciferian? And tomorrow you
will be what, a Buddhist? No need to answer, I just didn't expect this
attitude from you. But seems that you just found a new Lucitoy that soon you will discover a shallow hole in it, hopefully not too late.

Hello everybody.

There have been some misunderstundings. First, if you feel embarrased and / or attacked when using the word fuck, excuse me, that´s the way I have to write and, to some extent, to talk.

Second, in my post I was not talking about the Asetians. I was talking directly to Goingpostal, and told him/her to create his own spiritual path. In this sense, "fuck the asetians" means "don´t care about anybody´s opinions and focus on yourself". Still, if you feel embarrassed by the way I have to express myself, once again, excuse me.

Third, you are totally wrong Elendor. You are wrong in two things: first in assuming that I am a "chaote" or that I am into the Chaos Magick paradigm. I am into spirituality, which is beyond the range and meaning of fucking words (uups, sorry sir).

I don´t know why you think I am a chaote, maybe it is because I used the word Chaos when talking about the "primordial deity" on a different post, or maybe because I talked about them on this one. Anyways, you should check both posts and will see that first, the concept of Chaos is older than Mister Peter Carrol and is CENTRAL to all systems of spirituality, even the Asetian Bible talks about it.

Second, the Chaos Magick Paradigm is actually VERY complex and in no way it is " a mix of every thing found out there". Chaos Magick is magick without any specific set of symbols. In fact, the best symbolism in this paradigm is reality itself. Liber Null & Psychonaut by Peter Carroll is one of the BEST books on magic out there, and one of the most revolutionary. The concept of "free belief" that is so characteristic of Chaos Magick is based on a magical understanding of the world. It is not "mixing up everything", it is based on "magical theory" so to speak, based of a very deep understanding of "magical" concepts such as Chaos, Kia, Maya and the nature of your mind. You should read Liber Null & Psychonaut, it is a VERY good book.

However, once again, I am not a "chaote". It was just one example I gave when talking about the different ways to see and work with the spiritual world.

Thank you.

Of course there is an uproar here. No question about what caused it. But quickly consider he is new to the board. If any of you belong to other forums out there you know that this is common place. Coming in new with habits from the Black Chaos area would be a reason for using this language on the board....but of course, there is no excuse......But just tell him one time and that should be enough to handle it. He is a very intelligent person. He has even stated that he has grown tired of the chaos arena as well as the Satanic groups and is seemingly looking for something more uplifting. This he stated in private messages with me. I see that as a reason he came here in the first place.

Ankhhape is a very intelligent person as well, and in one quick moment has just missed a section on the board and quickly skimmed it over. If you are in a hurry, everyone does it.

Words create problems some time and then others jumping in on top of them compound the problem.....In everyone, tomorrow is another day. A small moment should not be allowed to dictate other, larger issues and make them into things they are not really.

Heck, I have been called a liar here for things I know I never lied about. I do not let it bother me. That is the same tone that was used to cause this problem in the first place. Not really meaning the exact words that were used. Insults are a different degree to all persons involved. Do not let this become an area that can dictate other emotions and build it into a geater issue. It was wrong, so we all admit it as being incorrect. It will not take a great deal to let the offender know and it would not happen again.

Everyone just take forgiveness into consideration.......everyone. Do not boil slowly and let it stay there. EVERYONE.

RudraShiva wrote:First, if you feel embarrased and / or attacked when using the word fuck, excuse me, that´s the way I have to write and, to some extent, to talk.

It is clearly stated that “the way you talk” is not accepted in here. We are a forum known for serious and intelligent users, not ones who still talk as if they are in high-school. You can direct your "fuck this, fuck that" towards anything else, just not the Aset Ka, for there are countless users here that dedicate their lives to Aset and the Asetians.

RudraShiva wrote:In this sense, "fuck the asetians" means "don´t care about anybody´s opinions and focus on yourself". Still, if you feel embarrassed by the way I have to express myself, once again, excuse me.

Seems like you did not understand a thing. This is not about anyone feeling “embarrassed”.

Aghrab

RudraShiva,

I never said you are a chaote, I addressed chaos magick and its paradigm as basic simple magick. It is something overly used by Satanists and Luciferians and far too new age in what comes to the metaphysical practices and magick. That is not what this forum is all about, we deal with deeper and less known magick in here.
Maybe it is a very complex form of magick to you, and I won't blame you for that, as maybe it is not new age to you either. I have read the works you mentioned a long time ago, as I have personally met individuals on the lead of such occult braches. That does not mean I agree with everything they publish or practice. For people that studies for many years, in some cases several decades, magick at the levels of Kemetic practices, both Asetian and Sethian, those other systems and concepts will always feel new, simple and weak. I am sorry if this sounds too arrogant to you, but maybe someday you will understand what I mean.

And yes, surely the concept of Chaos is important to any esoteric tradition, and highly used in the Asetian spirituality... however I mentioned chaos magick and the whole eclectic concepts you mentioned. I can't help but look at your whole comments that we can use any god/goddess in ritual and experiment with divine forces because they are nothing but reflections of our minds without seeing a weak Satanic mindset with needs of ego and self-affirmation. You are missing the whole point in what comes to the Universe, but as I said, if you wish to remain in spiritual delusion and build your own eclectic path based on what allows you to sleep better at night, by all means do so, it just means you joined the wrong community.

Oh, and I am not against anyone in here, that is why I haven't banned any user this time. I admit mistakes, we all do them, but just like Talibah said, sometimes a simple admittance of fault would suffice. And keep in mind that this apology should not be directed to me, but towards the community. I am not Asetian, and the rudeness was taken towards the Asetians, and since we are in a forum with a strong influence of Asetianists and other scholars who have the Asetians in such a high, and even divine, esteem, it is my obligation to stand for this community and those members.

Hello Elendor. Once again, I don´t agree with you.

Chaos magick overly used by Satanists? I think you miss the point with Chaos Magick. Chaos Magick is just magic. It is the attitude towards it and the understanding of it what makes this paradigm different. Again, it is magic whitout a specific, concrete and closed system of symbols. Its symbol is reality itself. This paradigm comes mainly from the oldest tradition of Shamanism and is heavily focused on technique. Before that, magic was highly dogmatic.

I can´t understand how you say that it is "far too new age in what comes to the metaphysical practices". Do you really consider the concept of Kia to not be metaphysical enough? Are theories and views on the deepest part of your own beign and of the Cosmos that superficial when it comes to metaphysics?

Don´t confuse the "chaotic community", which may has very little knowledge on these subjects, with the Chaos Magick paradigm itself.

Elendor wrote: I can't help but look at your whole comments that we can use any god/goddess in ritual and experiment with divine forces because they are nothing but reflections of our minds without seeing a weak Satanic mindset with needs of ego and self-affirmation

Could you tell me where I said that? English is not my mother language and maybe I didn´t express myself in the way I wanted. I never said, or I didn´t mean that we can use any god/goddess in ritual because they are nothing but reflections of our mind. Once again, the comment you refer to (which didn´t mean that, by the way, but it´s ok) was about ONE possible perspective when working with the spiritual world, not MY perspective and personal understanding.

And if you think that satanism is about ego worshipping you should leave behind the materialistic works of LaVey. The Order of Nine Angles, The Temple of Them, The Tempel ov Blood, The Temple of the Black Light or The Order of Phosphorous / Black Order of the Dragon (just to mention the most notorious) have nothing to do with the ego / carnal. In fact, they are quite the opposite.

What I said in that post to Goingpostal was about making your own spiritual path in life. In order to do that you have to experience many different things, including different Gods and Goddesses. You need perspective, and to be closed in just one side of the coin, like he or she does when being afraid of the Asetians because he / she has an interest in Setian magic, is dangerous for his personal growth. Also, it is very important to "experiment" with different deific forces because they are reflections of your higher self. That means that your Self is divine. It doesn´t mean that the gods and goddesses are nothing more that psychological realites in the sense of materialistic science.

And just two more things: First, I don´t care about people being arrogant. That is their problem, not mine. And second, if I missed the whole point when it comes to the universe, I will be very happy because of having the opportunity to keep learning new things.

You are free to disagree with me. I am not here to change anyone's mind. That is their own problem and path to evolve... their own obligation I would say, not mine.

You mentioned LaVey, and I don't care for his work. I do see it as basic and nothing that an occultist would take seriously.
I also disagree that everyone's higher self is divine, or that the goal should be self-deification. I am well aware that is the pseudo-goal of most Satanists and Luciferianists... which is exactly what makes me see them as completely lost in terms of spirituality. It may not seem like so on a first perspective, but that desire to be a god is actually a very human wish, and a typical mortal hope. Thinking that is even attainable by mere practice of Luceferian techniques is even more ridicule.

Anyways, no need to drag more on our disagreements. My intervention in here was because of your rudeness and ways of expressing yourself. You say that is how you express, but well, while in here that won't be the way you express. As simple as that.

The warning has been made quite clear, as the other users' opinions towards it have manifested as well in their disagreement. Despite that, enjoy the forum and good luck in learning what you can.

And I suppose I was just a casualty in this little skirmish?
Elendor, I am extremely hurt by your remarks towards me and how you really view me.

My participation here will be next to nil from now on.



Ankhhape

Ankhhape, my remarks made full sense when relating to someone that has always so openly professed his affiliation with Asetianism. If someone in here has rights to be hurt or disappointed, are the other Asetianists out there that would never let such lines pass so freely, let alone classify them as a good post. There is in no way that you could have not noticed his words, since it was central to what he was explaining. This is one of those situations when you would be better off putting your guard down, admitting what you did wrong and apologizing, than insisting in such a defensive technique and poor excuse when you're the one to blame. But that is up to you...

You may not notice, but all my words, no matter how strong and straight-forward they were, they were only meant to help you. I am sure you will see that when you actually calm down.

I don't have much to add to all that has been said.

I have myself been over these subjects under debate, a very long time ago, and as most of you shall do someday, I have moved over it...
The journey of an occultist is a very long one, and that happens in stages, where we explore many systems, metaphysical frameworks and paradigms. At some some point in time, we all have seen such theories as advanced and able to answer many questions for us, but only so later we could find another deeper place to dig. I won't blame if some cannot see that, since I was once younger as well, and I was in very similar shoes, thinking all I knew was right and that knowledge was the deepest the rabbit could go.

What I find wrong in here is how that was expressed, as it was mentioned by the other users, the disrespect. To say fuck them to the Asetians (or Sethians for that matter), is to say fuck you to knowledge and to evolution. This is not a matter of dogma or faith, it is a matter of the Universal alignment of nature.

Elendor wrote:Ankhhape, my remarks made full sense when relating to someone that has always so openly professed his affiliation with Asetianism. If someone in here has rights to be hurt or disappointed, are the other Asetianists out there that would never let such lines pass so freely, let alone classify them as a good post. There is in no way that you could have not noticed his words, since it was central to what he was explaining. This is one of those situations when you would be better off putting your guard down, admitting what you did wrong and apologizing, than insisting in such a defensive technique and poor excuse when you're the one to blame. But that is up to you...

You may not notice, but all my words, no matter how strong and straight-forward they were, they were only meant to help you. I am sure you will see that when you actually calm down.

I am not apologizing and I did nothing wrong, I did not see those sentences. If I had I would have been the first to say something . . . as I usually am!

Why would I agree with those words? This is clearly me not carefully reading his entire post and getting crucified for it!

But what is worse than any of that is the Light in which now I know how you see me. I have made more mistakes than everyone here combined, I have created more trouble than anyone here . . . but I have always admitted it and in most cases made amendments for for my actions.

But when I am not wrong and am falsely accused and then ridiculed in front of everyone . . . well, that is where I draw the line.

How can you not see the sentences when you commented on it being a great post? You're making yourself sound shallow in here, because you are taking off value from your own words. If you comment such lightly on something that you did not even read, then probably we should always dismiss your comments and posts? Think about it. You should give more credit to your own words and judgment.

You know I like your presence in here and that I am your friend. Just trying to see all this situation fixed so we can all move over and continue our great talks, with you too!

We are all perfect here? Is that what this is all about . . .then that is fine, if & when I hear ONE error from anyone I will take it upon myself to publicly humiliate that person to no end.

You are all calling me a liar now.

I am not......and I resent your claiming the title. I said you just missed it. (Actually, the same thing happened with me and a post by Helen or Hellen, cannot remember. I was pissed and only read half her post as I replied,,,,,,,,but I did not admit this)... I screw up more than anyone else. My name is mentioned more than anyone else here when associated with a burning stake......

So everything is fine......go back to work, everyone. Ankhhape will stay.......Good.

And I suppose Elendor then called you a fake, an embarrassment, unbalanced, un-evolved and shallow?

I doubt that. I have been nothing but pleasant and informative here . . . those days are behind me.

We all make mistakes.

Lets just move over it and forget about all this mess. Our power lies in our union, not in our arguments among ourselves. Lets remain united.

As a matter of fact, he told me if I was to do the same thing, I am out of here, whether I read over it or not, He would get rid of me in a hurry,....... but for some reason, his mother liked me, and I got one last chance.


With you, it looks like he was a lot easier on you than what he told me behind the scenes he would do with me. You really are one that he likes, but he had to make it look like he is showing no favorites. Just move on.......and everyone let it go.....

I've got to deliver a cake to his mom.

and, oh yes, I do think he mentioned something about unbalanced about me, but I thought that was because I was leaning more on one leg......

Maxx wrote:As a matter of fact, he told me if I was to do the same thing, I am out of here, whether I read over it or not, He would get rid of me in a hurry,....... but for some reason, his mother liked me, and I got one last chance.

LOL
Wtf?

I like the forum, and I like this topic, so I will keep my participation on it in spite of all the bullshit that is going on. As a piece of advice, maybe you should deal with your problems by PM...

Anyway:

Elendor wrote:I am well aware that is the pseudo-goal of most Satanists and Luciferianists... which is exactly what makes me see them as completely lost in terms of spirituality

Well, nowadays I am out of the Satanic / Luciferian community. I got tired of it because of the dualism that is present in almost every system of satanism that I know (with the excepcion of The Order of Nine Angels). I think a lot of the modern satanic thought is the result of the Christian influences of our modern societies. So, when talking about "self-deification" or "going against god´s will", they are creating an abstract concept (god) with a set of characteristics and attributes which are viewed by the satanists as dangerous for your personal evolution and freedom. This concept, god, is seen as a devouring force who will suppress your consciousness and spirit. Within this context, the goal of the Satanist is to trascend this force by making your self a divine being. Therefore, the majority of satanic systems are based on a dualistic principle: if God, that devouring and consuming force, is on the Sephirotic side of the tree, then liberation must be on the dark/Qlippotic one.

The problem I see in such a perspective is the fact that, in a lot of the spiritual paths that modern satanic thought is based upon, the concept of God has never been within the scope of such a dualistic thought. Although I am not an expert in qabalism and may be wrong, in the Tree of Life, what is called God is not Kether, but actually the Unmanifest, The Ain and what other people call Chaos. God is not a "devouring and consuming principle". God is everything.

For this reason I find quite pointless to state that the Satanist´s goal is to isolate him/her self from god or to go "beyond" it. In Vama Marga, the left hand path of the Tantric system, very popular in the majority of the modern satanic systems by the way, God is not dualistic thing. God is not a being whose goal in existence is to enslave you. Therefore, applying a Luciferian system within a Vama Marga context is pointless, in my opinion.

Now, the excepction to this rule may be The Order of Nine Angles as I said before, since their system is not dualistic.

However, this speech doesn´t mean that, for me, self-deification is not the goal. On the contrary: I want to become a divine beign. However I am not dualistic: I reject every notion of slave mentality that may be present in magic / religion / spirituality. My system is not Luciferian, I am Luciferian because of the way I view the relationship between the mortal and the divine.

I forgot this:

Elendor wrote:I also disagree that everyone's higher self is divine

I don´t know if everyone´s self is divine. I believe it is. It is important for me to believe it because if I wouldn´t, then my path in life would be pointless. I think everyone and everything is divine, just because they exist. We are all a part of Chaos. We come from it. We all have our Kia, and Kia is our inner connection with the outer Chaos. The goal is make youself conscious of this and to make your Kia / Free Will more powerfull so it can survive to the Cosmic bondage of ignorance and oblivion.

RudraShiva wrote:I forgot this:

Elendor wrote:I also disagree that everyone's higher self is divine

I don´t know if everyone´s self is divine. I believe it is. It is important for me to believe it because if I wouldn´t, then my path in life would be pointless. I think everyone and everything is divine, just because they exist. We are all a part of Chaos. We come from it. We all have our Kia, and Kia is our inner connection with the outer Chaos. The goal is make youself conscious of this and to make your Kia / Free Will more powerfull so it can survive to the Cosmic bondage of ignorance and oblivion.

I obviously agree with Elendor on this. Like him, I also am not fond of such pinky views of spirituality and rather embrace the Universe as it is. If every being was divine, then divinity would be a very incomplete concept, an ugly, dumb thing...
The vast majority of beings out there live without living... without goals besides earning money, getting a better job, or breeding a horde of new kids. There is nothing divine about the mundanes. Humans are not divine. Just like their biggest condemnation is their mortal nature... the human Soul is not immortal, and that's the central principle in Vampirism. What clearly distinguishes a Vampire from a Human, an Immortal from a Mortal... it's how the Vampire Soul lives forever... and the human decays and dies through the process of reincarnation. That is what distinguishes the Children of the Gods from mankind.

Thinking that the rapist drug addict next door is divine and a God in his own way, I'm sorry, but that's just far too fluffy for the type of spirituality we deal in here.

Victor said it well... To believe that the majority of worthless being who live their lives wasting it, who do not even deserve Life, are divine, is to say that Asetians are nothing. If everyone was divine, then there would exist no such thing as Divinity. This way of thinking is just too shallow for me to grasp, as it is to many other members here.

Aghrab

Then, according to Vampirism, what is the path that we, poor humans, should take if we are going to be destroyed? Is there something we could do?

I don´t agree. The human soul may be mortal. But the soul is NOT the same thing as the Spirit in some traditions. Maybe this is very fluffy to you, but let me tell you that it is not so "pink" to the Tantrika who views everything as part of the Divine. Althought it is possible that you view Tantra and the Vama Marga tradition as something utterly inferior to Vampirism, of course. But still let me tell you that in some traditions, like Tantra, reincarnation is in fact a part of the Maya (illusory) condition the majority of humans lives in. That means that, for them, reincarnation is not the goal. The goal is to trascend it by uniting themselves with the Bramahn, which is the spiritual reality beyond our phenomenological world. And, in this context, everyone has a Spirit. Because it is the Spirit / "acausal charge" / Kia or whatever the name what makes you a being.

Now, if nobody except vampires, anticosmic satanists, draconians and the chosen children of some alien god have an opportunity in existence, I can´t understand what the point in living, for a human being, is. If I am going to be destroyed by the Cosmic energies once my physical body dies, regardless of what I do, then I think this is not a very evolutionary perspective on reality.

Fortunately, that is not how I view things.

And now it will be me who will sound like an arrogant: the next time you talk about the Divine, don´t use so human and basic conceptions. For a person that embraces the universe as it is, that is very strange.

I must say that I fully agree with Elendor, Aghrab and Victor.

Humans may achieve enlightening by spiritual evolution. However, the only true way to achieve immortality, and become a God, is by the transcendental initiation that the Asetians call the Dark Kiss. But this process cannot be achieved on your own...

Another remark, the Egyptians did not make a distinction between the soul and the spirit. The concept that more similarly describes our own western definitions is the Ba, which is the soul/spirit, and that is not immortal.

Rudra says that if the human soul will perish and die, then he sees no point in living. This shows why mankind created so many fake religions, in ways to find faith in believing that they would not die. This is exactly the same as the paths that see every human as divine, an example of spiritual weakness, and an emotional excuse to live with less fear. It's a reflection of a scared mind, that is so afraid to die, that must enter the delusion that he is divine and immortal, in order to overcome his own inner fears.

Yes, humans can achieve enlightening by evolution and immortality, but that is a gift that only the Gods and their Children may provide. The human alone, in his own ignorance and illusion, does not have the power of Creation, that only the Elder Gods do, such as Aset and Seth. The Asetian Soul is not the same as the human soul. The Asetians are Children of the Gods, enlightened beings of the ancient world. They are not made out of chaos, they are part of the essence of Aset. Humans, however, are born out of the chaos, having their souls being formed out of water drops from Nun, the oceans of nothingness and chaos.
You should read the Asetian Bible, it would probably give you a very different perspective than the eclectic view of Life and the Universe that you have formed so far. Although probably it will be too scary for you to picture reality as they explain it, so like many others, you may chose, consciously or unconsciously, to remain in denial of truth and the Self.

This leaves me only with a final question: If you so vehemently disagree with vampiric spirituality and Asetianism, that strictly sees humans as mortals and not as divine, what are you doing in a forum that discusses vampirism and is filled with scholars of this path and mystery school?
You would be better off in any forum based on Satanism or Luciferianism where those ego-driven ideas would actually make any sense, or maybe in a Wiccan community.