Sethian Vampires ?

Hi, I am confused, I keep seeing people saying that the Sethians are Vampires. Having read the Asetian Bible I see no evidence of this. In fact I see at least one implication of the opposite. "The otherkin are out there, many times living in peace alongside humans, other times acting far more dangerously, ranging from other vampiric beings, to Anubian Keepers, Sethians, Lycanthropic beasts, Draconian creatures, disembodied spirits, shades and deamons among many others." Asetian Bible, page 99, Otherkin.

Hence it is implied that Sethians are distinct from all Vampires. While I understand that this may be disinformation, the point remains that people keep saying and implying that Sethians "ARE" Vampires. I see no evidence of this, which is not to say there is none. If I am wrong and am missing something please let me know but please try to distinguish between opinion and fact, and please state sources of information.

Someone that may come up here is Michelle Belanger who suggests that she and all "Kheprians" are descended from or otherwise related to Seth. While this may indeed be true by my current understanding, I have several alternate theories concerning her. Firstly, it is important in my opinion to recognise a few things; 1) the similarity between the Kheprian symbol and that of the Aset ka; 2) the similarity in attributes allocated to the Kheprians by Michelle Belanger, and those of the Asetians; 3) the very nature of awakening.

I suspect that Michelle Belanger may infact be an Asetian who is not fully awake. Consider for examle her association with Seth; while in the inatial stages of awakening she has a strong attraction to Egypt, she looks into the mythology as it is available today. Horrus, currently and erroneously being associated with the sun (something she knows she is not) combined with a powerfull connection to Seth (as an enemy but she may have been unable to distinguish unless she aquired full conscious recollection of her memories) who in point of fact is considered in Egyptian mythology as it is available today, to be associated with the night and darkness, which Horrus and all Vampires are. This could have in my opinion led an awakening Asetian to the wrong conclusion. Not to mention the fact that the Asetian Bible was not available to her at the time.

Another possibility, though one that is unpleasant to explore is that the Sethians are former Asetians. Indeed the last epoch is known to the Asetians as the haunting of the treacherous crocodile. Could it be that the Sethians were once loyal Asetians who for some reason betrayed their kin or were otherwise rendered enemies of the Aset Ka. Which may mean they are still Vampires.

Again, maybe I am missing something and the Sethians are Vampires. If this is the case let me know, thank you.

This is a very interesting post. I wish I could help answer your question on Sethians, but I am wondering the same thing. I am hoping someone with more knowledge can enlighten this topic.

I think it is an interesting theory that Michelle Belanger may be an unawakened Asetian. But, if she were, wouldn't an elder from the Aset Ka be able to make that determination? She was also so adverserial towards the AK. This also leads me to another question, which is, how would an Asetian be found by the Aset Ka, unawakened or not? I just had a few random questions running through my head after reading this post.

Ghost: a lot has been said in this Forum about Michelle Belanger. Maybe if you look around you will gather some information that might surprise you. For one thing, her relationship with the Aset Ka is and has been very negative, and pretty much vindictive and dishonest on her side. Whatever she really is or thinks she is, unawakened or not, her behaviour will deny her any acceptance into serious and respected circles. At least for now.

Concerning the presented quote from the Asetian Bible, that describes Sethians as otherkin, it is important to remember that Vampires are also a form of otherkin. Otherkin represent any being with a soul that is not human in nature. So Vampires are in fact otherkin, as much as the Anubian Keepers and other non human beings. With this in mind the Sethians can still be Vampires, although it is true that we have no direct proof or evidence to fully support such theory. I also believe this information is not addressed in the Asetian Bible because the Asetians see their Vampirism as a secondary detail about their nature... when most of all they are simply Asetians, and that is what defines them. More than being a Vampire or a Human, they are an Asetian... and that is what truly defines their nature. What makes them proud to be what they are and represent.
So I believe the same would apply to Sethians. Being a Children of Seth is what defines them, their Sethian nature is what they truly are. Vampire is a very ambiguous concept, not to mention that it is one that changes a lot between different cultures and traditions. That even led to the enlightening article by Luis Marques on Vampirism, published on the official website of the Aset Ka, that explains their inner views on the true nature of Vampirism. A great essay that pinpoints very crucial aspects of Vampirism and serves to shed some light on many misconceptions that have been passed by the new age side of Vampirism, like the group and texts from Michelle Belanger, who see Vampires as mere humans who have simply damaged their own chakras in the past. A view that certainly is not shared among the Asetians who hold a far deeper and more spiritual view over the true nature of a Vampire.

I disagree with your interpretation Jonathan but I could be wrong and I appreciate your input. To quote another sentence from the Asetian Bible. "This is the new era of this world, the Second Age of Vampires, the reawakening of the ancient Serpent from its long sleep through the ages." Asetian Bible, page 154.

I believe this further distinguishes the Sethians from all Vampires. Furthermore the Sethians seem to have worked hard in a propaganda campaign against Vampires in the past, in the times of the inquisition etc. Not the easiest thing to do when one considers the allure of power and immortality that all humans are subject to.

I think if Michelle were an Asetian she would probably know by now (I think her spiritual evolution could permit that)
and she would probably feel a great Love towards the Asetian culture. That wouldn't be logical at all, because her relationship (as it was said before) with Asetians and the Order itself it's not positive. I've heard she descends from Seth, but during her life in Egypt she took a different path from the Sethians, so she dosen't consider herself a Sethian, but a Kheprian. And together with her followers, she created a new order. But that's a subject that only Michelle could answer in her words.

I also have the same question in my head that Saylamine posed: how would an Asetian be found by the Aset Ka, unawakened or not?

I know nothing of Michelle Belanger's current relationship with Aset Ka. But remember that it is said in the Asetian Bible that Asetians are many times enemies within the context of specific incarnations and perhaps even spaning many.

Furthermore there is something human psychologists call cognitive dissonance. An example of this is that humans invariably believe that which they consciously want to be, or expect to be true, the primary source of human ignorance, and when a human overtly acceps a notion, it is often difficult for them to go back on it, doing so can make them feel and/or be perceived as hypocritical. This can often times lead to what is perhaps best described as aggressive stubbornness, and they will rationalize accordingly. Perhaps some Vampires are subject to similar traits. That is to say, perhaps she has accomplished much, or feels she has, with her order and does not want to see the truth.

This is all speculation however, I make no claim to know.

Or perhaps as I mentioned before, Sethians are former Asetians. This could perhaps explain Michelle Belanger's apparent animosity towards Aset Ka. When exploring this theory I often think of the lord of the rings, where the orcs were once elves (orcs now loyal to the big burning eye of sauron -Ra perhaps). This type of transformation is a common theme in the older human religions.

As to the question of how at this time, an Asetian would be reintegrated while incarnated, into the social structure of the order as is exists here currently. I do not think it is that simple. I suggest you think of an otherkin entity wearing a "human" body as a form of genetic espionage. The film Avatar being, I believe, quite accurate (through the metaphor of phisical technology) in terms of the dynamics of otherkin incarnation. As I understant it, 49 days after conception, a soul will incarnate into a body (this is a buddist belief and is also the time that genger manifests and the pineal gland or "seat of the soul" begins to form). From this time the DNA of the body (less than 2% of "human" DNA has been allocated a function by human scientists, the other >98% is often referred to as "junk DNA", which I believe is in fact the species ID etc.) conforms to the parameters of the soul, human or other.

At this time I suspect the Sethians still have a good deal of control of the planet. Under such circumstances it is usually not a wise move to consolidate ones forces. Remember, the context is war.

As such I suspect the term "Asetians rise" are well chosen words as opposed to "Asetians come home". The point being clandestine action. By strategically placing onesself in a coordinated effort, and then performing the appropriate action or series of actions when the time is right, one can often relatively easily negate the advantage of a numerically superior force.

The point being I do not think direct social reintergration is the prime concern at this time. To go back to the espionage analogy, I think that each Asetian has a sort of plan or briefing prior to incarnating, weather military in nature or not this briefing stays with the Asetian for the duration of the incarnation in the form of memories, consciously recalled or not. I suspect that in the not to distant future (even in human terms) Aset Ka will once again become the overtly dominant force on this planet. It will be I think at that time that reintergration will be less dangerous and more common.

That's an interesting theory and post...

Thanks for sharing it.

I highly doubt Michelle Belanger is an Asetian. The Beacon is something only Asetians feel to one another, and something they can only fully understand. If she were truly an Asetian, no matter how mixed up she would be about what to believe, she would feel a pull and a love and thirst to find out more about the AK, not try to bash what she cannot comprehend. No matter in what incarnation, society, or class an Asetian is in, they feel a love for their fellow Asetians that humans can not understand.

I see your point, but I think you are jumpinig to a few conclusions. The kheprians according to Michelle Belanger do have a Beacon that operates in an identical or similar way as described in the Psychic Vampire Codex. In fact, all of the similarities have led to many insolent mortals claiming that the Aset Ka has copied her. In a way, I can see how such creatures can come to such conclusions. Indeed the similarities are striking, which is what led me to my theory. Indeed I would not be suprised if her publicity even led to the awakening of some of those who are currently intergrated into the Aset Ka physical social structure.

Furthermore, are the Sethians not loyal, atleast in part to Ra the sun god, and as such would they not be less sensitive to the sun as it is partly this symbolism (Ra being more or less the enemy of Aset) that renders Asetians sensitive to it in a detrimental way, according to the Asetian Bible.

And again, the Asetian Bible does state that Asetians have spent lifetimes as "fearce enemies" as well as passionate lovers. And as Michelle Belanger herself states (in the internet edition of the Vampire Codex I think) "we can love and hate each other with great passion, but we are forever loyal to our own".

Also, I feel that the very concept of vampirism is femenine, but maybe its just me.

Concerning my other theory, the one that the Sethians May be former Asetians, I found something ineresting on the internet. A picture of Serket (the personified Seven Scorpions of Aset who trained the Imperial Guard). The interesting thing about this picture is that it is a women with a scorpion on her head (which makes sense), but with a crocodile sort of branching out of her back. Could this be symbolic of a rogue faction of the Imperial Guard or something similar. Which brings another question to mind, why are the Elders distinct from the non-elders. While many distinct traits are spoken of in the Asetian Bible, no clear reason is given. While I have my own "far-out" theories on this (that I would prefer not to go into here, for now atleast), it does occur to me that it could be a sort of security protocol. A mesure teken to prevent the past from repeating itself. Interestingly, in the legends Seth is castrated. Again personally I think this is symbolic of something ells but could it be that this means he is unable to reproduce. That is to say, could he have allways been, or have become, naturally or otherwise incapable of creating Sethians, and therefore resorted to "turning" Asetians.

Keep in mind also that the very shen in an Asetian that constitutes the "Blood of ISIS" in the abdomen, is that which the Kheprians claim to have severed. If this is true then perhaps it is not at this time that they disconnected from humanity, perhaps this is when they disconected from Aset.

Also the Temple of the Vampire say in thier version of history says that in the old days when humans were willing slaves of Vampires, that some newly turned Vampires became sympathetic and began a rebelion. something that continues to this day, thay say.

I suspect that some will say that no Asetian will have ever betrayed another. I say to such individuals it is not your place to have such an arrogant conviction unless you are an Asetian Elder with full conscious recollection of your memories. I hate the idea of certain aspects of my theories myself and I have my own very strong beliefs pertaining to Aset Ka, yet I will never claim without ABSOLUTE confirmation that this or that IS the case, and I try to explor all possibilities objectively until such time that I acquire confirmation, one way or the other. The Asetian Bible itself says that Asetianism is ever evolving and not static and that the Asetian Bible itself is not to necessarily be taken absolutely or even literally.

You sure are good at striking an intellectual note, ghost47. The ideas have a lot of merit in possibility, and open up a completely new branch (at least for me) of thought in regard to Asetians in general. I have often pondered whether Sethians are sensitive to sunlight as Asetians (though the Guardian lineage does not show as much sensitivity due to shielding, in all technicality).

Hi.

Sethians came from Seth. Asetians are born from the essence of Aset. There is no switching, it has all to do with the soul. You cannot change what your soul is.
Asetians have a bond that goes far deeper than many know. They are a metaphysical family, and their strength is their union. They are loyal to Aset and each other. There would be no rebelling against each other, not even from an unawakened Asetian. They would simply not know.

I felt this had to be pointed out more. I see that other points have been brought out and will not repeat what has been said.

Sethians are loyal to Seth, not Ra.
Now comparing Kheprians to Asetians is something that doesn't make any sense at all. At surface, to new comers, they might seem similar and such. But after a deeper analysis they couldn't be any more different. Kheprians are humans, like everyone else, even themselves explain that. Asetians are not humans. Kheprians are just humans with a damaged energy system. Adding to that, the Aset Ka is a highly deep spiritual society, unlike House Kheperu which is nothing but a club of friends. They can't be compared. House Kheperu is no metaphysical order, at all. Just a group that gathers together and promotes their own paid public events and workshops, like so many other new age groups. There's nothing special about them. It is about making money, and not much more. It it sad that they end up being taken serious by some unaware people. Just because they have a book and a few concepts that in a very superficial way resemble the ways of the Asetian culture, that does not justify their truthfulness. In fact, beyond those simple concepts that we may see parallels with Asetianism, we can't find a hint of spirituality in the whole Kheprian system, if we can even call something like that a "system". Asetianism is a whole lost culture, and a powerful and deep spiritual system. Wether we like them or hate them, comparing them to Kheprians is not a very wise thing. At least for those of us who have followed House Kheperu since its first days and know their commercial motivations. They have nothing of a true Vampire about them. They may have vampiric needs, given their broken Shens, but they are undoubtedly just human... and in most cases, rather ignorant and unevolved. Are they beings constantly evolving from the times of the Asetians, hidden in silence as them? Yeah right. Science fiction, at best.

Ok, you are missing the point. First I will explain something to you. My hobbies include the high order sciences, egyptology, ancient history, and psychology. I am a private investigator by profession who specializes in private intelligence. I know a thing or two about analyzing information, of any kind. What I see happening here is something common among humans. I see what is most often called cognitive bias, or just bias. In all serious intelligence training, a great deal of time and effort are expended on the eradication of bias because it corrupts decision making ability and judgment, and is the most commom reason for erroneous thinking. A good example of bias weather it really happened like this or not is when the UK and USA went to war in Iraq. They apparently had limited evidence of WMD and they wanted it to be true so they would have official justification. So with that limited evidence they jumped a the wrong conclusion. The desire and/or belief filled in the spaces. I do not know if that is really what happened but it makes a good example all the same.

My point is that there is a difference between reaching a conclusion based on a very thorough examination of evidence, and reaching one from interpreting something that is SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION, is incomplete, or is misleading (purposefully or otherwise).

Consider this, the types of arguments you use to discount my theories here (just saying: this is; they are; etc. As if it just is that way), can and are used to to "successfully discount" the very possibility of the existence of Vampires, immortality, the soul itself.

Not so long ago people "knew" this planet was flat. They "knew" it so absolutely that to say otherwise was surely disinformation the likes of which onle the devil could get you to say, and sometimes you would have even been killed. Guess what... this planet is approximately spherical. But think about it from the perspective of people at the time. They knew that things fell if you droped them, however the vast majority of them did not really understand gravity. So it made perfect sense that this planet is flat. If, for example you try to let something rest on the bottom of a ball or globe what happens? It falls off, so obviously this planet must be flat. Right? The lesson? Reality conforms to neither your beliefs, desires, nor your interpretations. It is for the most part, freestanding. Not dependant on your acceptance or your acknowledgement.

It amuses me Jonathan, that one such as yourself would chose to say: "yeah right. Science fiction, at best."

There are currently more than 6 billion people populating the serface of this planet who would say the same thing about most of what is spoken of on this forum. While some aspects will not be disputed by some people, very few are open minded enough to see such things outside of the context of their mainstream religion. And yet.

In the monotheistic religions, the texts are often said by the "experts" to be literally and absolutely accurate. People do not have that excuse with the Asetian Bible. It says in many pleces from the introduction that: "within its contents there is much symbolical information, intentionally disguised, together with some subliminal details specifically designed to the identification and pre-awakening within the Asetian family." Asetian Bible, page 16.

To my knowledge, there is no reason to asume that these "bubliminal details specifically designed to the identification and pre-awakening" are not details of omission, that is to say the absence of information. Perhaps an Asetian will subconsciously detect this absence and be inclined if only on a subconscious level, to search for what is missing, internally and externally, until it is found. And just like a jigsaw puzzle only the right piece will fit. Or it could be disinformation to the same effect. Or both. Or neither.

And in the chapter "Book of Nun" it goes on to say: "It does not address the whole complexity of the subject, nor is that the intention of this version of the Book of Nun, here made accessible to the general public for the first time. The full mysteries of the Book of Nun are a compendium of highly deep and intense religious knowledge, where some information is kept hidden inside the minds of the Asetian Elders and in the ethereal realms of the Akashic records." Asetian Bible, page 38.

These are just two parts I glanced while skimming through the book. I could quote most of the book to make my point.

Now, are you really going to tell me that you are absolutely certain that it could not be the case that part of this history not given, etc, is something along the lines of what I have said before?

To be blunt, jumping to such arrogant conclusions is intellectual cowardice. It is easy to believe what you want to believe. It requires no integrity to dismiss things you object to.

Do not get me wrong I mean no offence and I wecome debate. But please distinguish between opinion and fact. Also, as I have said before, state sources of information.

As Socrates said: "Wisdom is knowing how little we know".

Ignorance can sometimes be bliss (or comforting atleast), but is rarely productive unless you are dispensing it to your enemy.

By the way helliana, if "You cannot change what your soul is." then how is it that Asetians or Kheprians came into being?

*drops down to the last bit* That is not what I meant. I mean you alone cannot change your soul into something entirely different (you can spark the evolution of it and evolve, but that is separate from what I am addressing). For example: "Oh, I don't want to be an Asetian any more, I want to go over here and be something else and change into a Sethian!" No, that's not how it works.

Asetians were given the Dark Kiss by Aset, a Goddess. Their souls were changed from being mortal to becoming immortal through the essence of a Goddess. Is that more understandable for you now? I thought that would be obvious without having to ask, upon studying the ground and first concepts introduced in Asetianism.

what exactly do you seek here?

I understand that you have questions and that is all good and well, but a basic belief and understanding of some basic Asetian knowledge would be awesome before you posted.

To analyze Asetianism through such a close minded perception is useless. You said yourself that things can not be taken literally from the AB, but you misconstrue the meaning of that, and use it to prove a senseless point. If the info can not be taken literally, why quote the AB. This is an example of the misuse of Asetian knowledge in the wrong hands. I think you are missing the point. It is not about a bias, it is about what is presented as truth and verified with our souls (I speak for myself and others who can relate). If you do not sense it that is your issue, and if not, what are you doing here? A skeptic is always good, but to be so stubborn is ridiculous. Why ask questions, if even after things are explain clearly you still try to twist answers or make up even more senseless questions?

My apologies to other forum members but I have had it with senseless posts....

I an not skeptic and I am not being stuborn. What people are doing is giving opinions and that is fine, but when it is put in a way that says IT is the truth, that is stubborn, not accepting you could be wrong. Read my posts, I think you will find I have not claimed to know anything. Do not presume my hands are the wrong ones. Misuse? I have done no more than ask people to explain how they "know" these things, I certainly do not dismiss them.

I did not mean to be arrogant at all, and also I did not meant to say I have all the answers and know it all when it comes to Asetianism. I certainly am far from being an expert in the Asetian culture. I admire their culture and tradition but I am not even an Asetian, so I would not make such arrogant claims. I merely addressed something that is a fact not only for me, but for people who are in the occult for a long time, when it comes to the lack of credibility, seriousness and spirituality of the whole Kheprian club thing. This does not mean I lack an open mind or that I am not tolerant, it is quite the other way around. I am very tolerant towards different views, belief systems and spirituality. I get a long with countless people who have different beliefs and views of life than my own personal one. I respect them as I would respect anyone. But no, I can't respect people like Michelle Belanger who just insult something she fears and who goes to such lengths to attack those same things out of her own ignorance. That is being a coward. Of course I can't help to admire on the other hand the Asetians, who just sit watching her going crazy, going on Wikipedia, Amazon, her own websites, and do all she can to create a campaign against the Aset Ka... and they still remain watching... in silence. Doing nothing. That reminds me of the old Zen masters, teaching by silence, and in their own way, they certainly have taught Belanger a great lesson on honor and evolution. That's all I meant... no arrogance or closed mind. Just a well known reality to the real occult community, and no, that is not the online fan clubs and commercial workshops we can find out there. That is far from the true occult community, and has no real connection to the several occult orders around the globe. If you work with information as you say, you should know that better than most of us.

Now on more interesting subjects than jealous people and fan clubs, I have to say that I do agree with Helliana. I see no way of a Sethian being a former Asetian. They are two opposed forces, almost like different faces of a coin. They are duality. But as you say, this is just my opinion, and you are correct, that is all this is. I don't claim to know it all.

Don't get me wrong, I was never trying to be arrogant, and you did make some interesting points during your earlier posts, but in my humble opinion your whole theory on Sethians just doesn't make any sense in the way I see Asetian spirituality.

Sethians
and Asetians represent that duality. Both sides of the same force: the powers
of Kemet. Both families, 2 poles.


The whole
system embraces the concept of duality. This mean that everything is formed by
a double side or face, each opposed and attracted by the other. The opposing
forces are not characterized only by darkness and light. They are everything
and everywhere. They can be hot and cold, love and hate. Life and Destruction.
Everything has its own opposing force.


“This is
the new era of this world, the second Age of Vampires, the reawakening of the
ancient Serpent from its long sleep through the ages. This truly is the age of
the Asetians rising…” – Asetian Bible – Page 154


This is deeper than you can imagine my dear ghost. Djehutys
are not defined by years, as in human timing, but more by spiritual formulae. Although
timeframes, they are in fact spiritual eras of the physical Universe. They also
reflect major shifts in consciousness, but they are far more than that. And I assure
you that I am proof of the Violet Flame. The Power of the
Dark Mark opened my eyes ... Changed me. The
human science can’t explain this, but the Kemet science can explain.


You talk about hide information, but the real mysteries that lie within
the secrets of the Aset Ka are deeply concealed for more than 8000 years, and
its doors will only open for those who prove worthy. Page 299 If you wish
check. J


Kemetic Order of Aset Ka, is a religion of mysteries has a complex and
deep spirituality, but as the same time its unique and beautiful, like the
tender light of the Violet Flame iself. Page 127. The Number of Asetians is 7.
This mean that Violet is the color of Seven. Connection with the Divine, Energy
Source.


Element: Divinity (Shen system Table)


Red Order of Seth.


Element: Earth


Color: Red or Black.


I will let you check the table alone. Make sure that you understand the
table.


I use my intelligence and wisdom to satisfy my soul... You use your
wisdom and intelligence to satify your brain.


The “blind”
depend of the level of interpretation or of the level of ignorance.

I belive that given all this posts one thing is certain. Everytime we read the Asetian Bible new questions and significances emerge from The Book and from our self (that is something that is related with each personality). This only shows us one more time the power of The Asetian Bible.

Good post Stalker, thank you for clarifying these topics.

Friends, as always, you continue to impress me.

AndreiaLi: It is truly amazing!

First, for those of you that have come to the conclusion that I am mortal. I am not. I assure you I actually know what I am. Let me tell you something of how I know. Ever since my earliest memories in this body my eyes have changed colour with my mood, as does the weather in proximity to me. I have fed from and manipulated those around me from before I knew what I was doing. I read the same book as you. The same kind of websites. You know what? It was not enough. Yes, I knew sothmething along the lines before I read the books or the websites, I "knew" exactly, afterwards. But I did not stop there. As any true immortal knows, it is not enough to read a book, any book. This is no trivial matter. I quote those very specific parts of the Asetian Bible to make clear something that was clear to me from the beginning. It is one drop in an ocean of knowledge, culture, and history; a vast ocean. I am thorough. I went to extraordinary lengths to be sure of everything I know about myself. I did not let myself put blind fiath in what I "knew". Many people "know" many things. Sometimes they do not agree. Many of you for example seem to "know" I am wrong and yet I "know" I am right. Many people "know" we are all wrong. Who is right? As I said, reality is for the most part freestanding. This pursuit is my very existence. It is not some thing I do after work.


Some of you seem to be satisfied with that feeling you claim to have. My feeling made my go further. Recall the process of triangulation that any Asetian who remembers something must go through? Even those inside Aset Ka's social structure as I type these very words are humble enough, not to have blind faith in their own recall and understanding of the past. They subject themselfs and eachother to most thorough scrutiny. Because they understand as I do, that these things matter and are far too important to take for granted. They seem to agree with Socrates: "Wisdom is knowing how little we know"; as do I.Someone asked me how an Asetian would be reintergrated. I said perhaps that is not the main priority at this time, but lets say it is. Who do you think would get there first, an Asetian who just "knows", or one with the motivation and determination to really go and look; I do not believe the former kind even exists. These things (books and websits) are not a wast of time, but they are not the whole answer. And one must be thorough and humble when it comes to conlusions. One must question everything. The search for truth does not suffer complacency. The Asetian Bible did not relieve my curiosity, it stimulated it and gave me a direction to search in. I believe this is its purpose. The impression I get is that an Asetian, when intergrated still has much to learn. How can you or I say what exactly is already clear about history from the outside in a book, other people, the internet etc. I have made good progress in my awakening and the price paid is diligence. It is not easy but it is worth it.

And no, Stalker I am far from assured that you have anything to do with the Violet Flame. As a real immortal respects the importance of that which we speak, and the necessity for thoroughness. Your attitudes are far more indicative of a human. And I have had contact with many humans who "know they are Vampires", And the part where you starded with "You talk about hide information". You are really making my point. And about the shen; Tantric Feeding, Grounding, physicality. Root Shen right? Sounds quite Guardian to me my dear mortal. I only suggest the possibility.

And jonathan, about of the occult community, yes, I do know the difference between online clubs and true occult orders, and yes, I dare say I know more than you. Working with information however does not mean I look into everything, nor do I even have the time. The Khprians are one such subject I have not gone far into. My interest in them being peripheral for now. I have only began exploring the subject of Kheprians. You seem to get hung up on my mention of her. I do not understand you animosity, but im sure you have your reasons. However, on the subject of occultism, take some advice and study the works of Franz Bardon, Mouni Sadhu, and Aleister Crowley if you have not already. They knew what they were doing and they emphasize thoroughness.

Some of you are irritated because I have questioned your "authority".

I know I am immortal, I know I am a Vampire, I have earned well the right to claim this, but I am not so arrogant or insolent as to presume that I belong to a species that to my knowledge I have had no physical social contact with atleast since wearing this body. And I do not believe that any intergrated Asetian would be in this forum other than to passively observe. So be wise Stalker, it is no small thing to impersonate Gods, knowingly or otherwise. As I said, I know what I am, but I will not presume to know what they are.

I do not expect you to know to whom you speak, but show some respect for the subject.

I came here to speak with entities I could learn something from. I have learned much, just not what I had in mind. I may soon discontinue my communications.

Once an Asetian is integrated, there's no point in being here anymore. I've often thought of this forum almost like a testing grounds. Some young ones pass through and learn from it, then eventually grow past it. I know when I first came here I was very under-developed in just about everything I came to think of. Now, I am still under-developed, but I am not heading backward anymore.

ghost47: as far as I see it, no one has arrived at any conclusions regarding your immortality or lack of it, nor speculated with what you might be. Here, we all have our own personal opinions about ourselves, some of which might be as thoroughly tested as yours. My own personal opinion is that it takes a whole lifetime and beyond to really know what you are. As you well said, even the Asetians are humble enough to question this themselves and be subjected to triangulation and other verification processes.

Now, don't take me wrong. I don't mean to jugde you. As Crowley wisely said, "do as thou Wilt". The main purpose of this Forum is to promote discussion and exchange of opinions, and to share knowledge. Often this has been accomplished very successfully, and many of us - me included - have greatly beneffitted from it. There is no need, in my opinion, to get all fired up over the responses to your post, no one's authority has been questioned, as far as I see, because no one here thinks of themselves as authorities. Yet, you would be extremely surprised to know about some of the users here and about their own personal story. They just choose not to share it.

All this said, I find your posts interesting. We could all benefit from a bit more debate, and even some arguing, why not, as long as it is constructive.