VT Study Series # 1: Disclaimer and Introduction

(My own disclaimer for the thread(s) – unrelated to the Disclaimer from the tome of the Violet Throne: these thoughts and ideas as presented in commentary and question upon, as well for reflection towards, the quotations drawn from the Violet Throne book, are in this thread solely my own (not the quotations, then, but the commentaries and questions only – the quotations belong to the author, Luis Marques, himself)… and the discussions to follow are from members of this forum only and not members of the Order of Aset Ka, so bear in mind that they're precisely just speculations, theories, individual thoughts, perspectives and conjectures, experiences and insights from forum – and not Order – members, as such.)

INTRODUCTION TO THE INTRODUCTION THREAD AND THE WHOLE OF THE STUDY PROJECT

Em Hotep, and welcome to this Violet Throne study series. This introduction will serve as a baseplate of simple understanding for the starting of this project as well as for what shall be discussed in this introduction thread itself. The idea of this project is to venture into a greater understanding of subject matters of the Asetian culture at least as perceived from outside of the halls of the Aset Ka (none of us here are members of the Order) by our own input and experiences with the violet path of Asetianism itself. That is, then, upon the creation of these threads and their discussion; so it is to shed certain, hopefully brighter, understandings in regards to the nature of the subject matters and dispelling mists of common misunderstandings just for the sake of a bold presentation that can do service for not just the community but new Asetianists or just those interested in the path and learning... At least in so far as to the extent that we are able to, having both more experienced Asetianists participating and less experienced ones as well as even other interested persons involved that don't affiliate with an Asetianist path or identity necessarily but may or may not be well versed with its understanding of more or less depth and experience with metaphysics and spirituality on their own paths as giving a contrasting perspective for that insight. All who are sincere and serious in regards to upholding mature discussion and balanced discourse pertinent to the subject matters are welcome to join in, however it is recommended that participation is also out of their own reading just because we won't copy all the passages which should be rather plainly obvious. But that is not a great requirement as long as you can be respectful and are able to help – at the very least not hinder – the flow of the discussion, so we won't really exclude those who don't have or can't afford a copy of the book but welcome those who are sincere and honest in their participation, even if only to raise certain questions for which a spark of ignition can be given, hopefully, to the overall discussions anyways. Also it is my hope that others may create these types of threads on their own within the study series which would give a breeze of fresh air over the whole project from variegated starting points where it is not only one person who is making them, but just for as long as we communicate about it or at the very least know when is the right timing to do such.

We will go straight into it and won't start this introduction without discussion, so the main touching points of this thread itself will be going over certain few but noteworthy short passages in the Violet Throne's own introduction chapter as well as discussing the Disclaimer before it. The introduction chapter to the Asetian Bible part of the VT – following right after the Asetian Manifesto which in its turn follows right after the VT's introduction – will not be included of any quotations for reference towards discussion in this initial thread but may be covered in most likely the next thread, seeing as its content carries far too many noteworthy references that just are heavily loaded into it and it would deserve to be gone over at its own length, at least as concerns few but brief noteworthy passages. The space, then, in this thread, will be dedicated instead to parts of the Violet Throne's introduction chapter as well as to discussions on the Disclaimer. I have not included a full passage of the Disclaimer, however, but it's advisable to follow through with this study by parallel reading of the very same chapters that we go over so as to get the full context, even if it's not a direct requirement per se. I do not wish to quote greater passages but only shorter ones in any given instance so as to not infringe upon any copyright or legal issues for which I already feel a bit uncertain in regards to this project but shall hope that either there is an action taken by the admin in closing these threads if they are perceived that way or that others signify of it and make note so that it can be stopped before we go too deep into it with discussing further chapters. Also keep in mind that I reference the pages that those quotations are drawn out from but that those quotations aren't the full pages, so as to clear any potential misunderstandings of such an albeit tiny detail but if such is even possible for misunderstanding; that will be mentioned just for safety's sake in terms of no prospective legal or copyright issues ensuing, if at all possible in that way, but since I don't know and am no legal expert. (The author of the Violet Throne is Luis Marques, included for reference because I was told by someone that this project would be fine as long as pages, book and author are referenced.) So let's begin…


QUOTATIONS OF THE DISCLAIMER (FOR DISCUSSION)

Violet Throne, from page 15: “Asetians are by no means harmless beings or the personification of kindness. They do not abide by social standards nor fall under the understanding of the common mind. In the silence and darkness of their inscrutable nature they are not known to be social and often do not nurture an inborn friendliness over society. Their ageless culture is built upon predatory occultism, the dark arts, a powerful layer of spirituality and secrets long forgotten to mankind.”

There are also many other passages to go over, but since the length of the Disclaimer is very short, I won't include it fully here, of course. But we can go into greater depths of discussion regarding the rest of Disclaimer anyways, however I'll cite just this for reference myself in this original post. I'll simply raise this question for this quote: how do you balance, acknowledge or embrace such an understanding in its depths and what implications does it hold?

If anyone else has anything they wish to go over in the Disclaimer please cite a reference in the replies and/or just dwell into its subject matter.


QUOTATIONS OF THE VIOLET THRONE'S INTRODUCTION (FOR DISCUSSION)

Violet Throne, from page 23: “With its detached silence and experienced approach the Aset Ka pioneered vampiric magick and its secretive methods of initiation, revealing the spirituality of the Asetians alongside vital knowledge of advanced metaphysics and subtle anatomy that connected for the first time the practice and nature of vampirism with the ancient foundations of a spiritual path that reestablished a timeless culture of balance, growth and wisdom.”

This is within the context of the author, Luis Marques, discussing the last decade since the release of the original Asetian Bible to the public in 2007, precisely 10 years later in 2017 at the release of the Violet Throne with its augmented, revised and updated version of the Asetian Bible. He discussed how it has changed many a perception on the nature, culture and real life practices of vampirism of a generation within different communities although these have not always recognized its sources on those influences. I'm including merely one sentence of the passage, not to take too much out of the book itself but keep it to a fair limit. I believe this quotation drawn from the text of this page holds relevant value for a higher, refined and truer understanding of the nature of vampirism, also, such as conducting it as an initiatory system as well as connected to the true foundations of a legitimate spiritual path, which raises a deeper and sophisticated interest, potentially, for occultists. I'll leave a short and open-ended question on this one, merely to retain simplicity, and as I'm sure many of you hold good opinions on this already; what's your view on it?


Violet Throne, from page 25: “Many feel the need for direct contact, personal tutoring and guidance but often seek it as a reflection of insecurity towards their own abilities. Those who fear loneliness surround themselves with others to feel safe and their journey ends but those who overcome such fears embrace the eternal crossing alone and find the liberating force of their own strength.”

This I believe holds a significant major role of importance as to dissection about various shallow, often superficial, desires to merely join the Order of Aset Ka, due to a perceived alluring, hidden and seductive greatness thereof, maybe due to its remoteness, elitist secrecy and esoteric power, misperceived, but which creates on the surface a kind of aura for some that appeals to the ego of finding membership for various reasons, but losing compass of what the true essence of this path entails. He speaks, in this context, of people seeking membership but often missing the point, in a sense, I believe, although those are not his exact words but my own interpretation and understanding only. So that desire should not be placed focus upon out of a mere futile curiosity, one could say, but rather it is to find the path within, that aligns through honor, evolution and wisdom, truth and loyalty. It holds a relevant value to many misconceptions, also, about how the Order is out there to be reached and requested of membership, which isn't really true as to how it works from what we know. As well as holding a rather edifying point about the inner significance of the solitary path needed to be embraced upon the cautious and evolutionary journey of an inward quest. What are your opinions upon all of this?


And, there, I believe I will conclude this introduction thread, although I had thought of one more quotation as reference for discussion but do not wish to load this introductory thread with far too many points and instead hamper the process but let it flow from some relative margin of efficient simplicity. However if any of you think this was too short and want me to include it I'll post it below in a reply to this thread for added material to discussion.


(References or links to previous threads are not included in this first introductory thread because there are none, obviously, but – for future reference – this and the following threads must be included in new threads within the study project/discussion series for the sake of its better organization of previous threads for reference.)

It seems like you're doing a good work with this project. Keep it up Mystic.

Thanks. Just awaiting participation! I hope that'll be more active now towards the weekend.

on page 15, it goes on to say....In their dual essence and misunderstood existence, as ELEMENTAL FORCES OF NATURE, the Asetians may be gentle, loving, and protective, etc. AND...Asetians are the craftsmen of the subtle, the swordsmen of magick and the scholars of arcane wisdom...

This wording aligns the Asetian with THE forces of Nature.  Do you view this wording as being separate from a human Nature? Is the description close to the Elementals in creation we know of like unto gnomes, undines, sylphs, and salamanders?  It seems these beings are first mentioned in the 16th century.  Is there a connection at all?  There is implied a magic appearance here somewhat, or not?

Does the magic spoken of here imply that the Asetian utilizes a different component producing the magic referred to here?  If so, what is the basis or difference in the creation of the composition? Why and How is it acquired?  Through practice alone? or is there an anointing transferred? If not, why not?

It says their ageless culture is built upon predatory occultism and the dark arts.  Think about that.   This says it is not exactly white light goody two shoes in action....right?

I have so many questions and I am not even off the first page or even off the first question.   At my pace, we will be here for another 312 years.  
I would enjoy your view on the questions I wonder about.

Are ALL Asetians Vampiric.  Or are there Asetian Humans?

Maxx wrote:Are ALL Asetians Vampiric.  Or are there Asetian Humans?

This is a good question. I believe that while most Asetians are vampiric not all of them are, since it's mentioned that while many Asetians feed while incarnated some may not require feeding. As for your question about there being Asetian humans I think that is a whole different question than all being vampiric or not, since that deals with the Asetian soul which in metaphysical and spiritual terms is not classified as human. So while I think that there may be Asetians that are not vampiric I don't believe there are any Asetian humans, since the nature of their soul is not human but of a different nature. Some say demigods although I'm not sure if that's the best description, but it may hold merit.

Thanks for putting so much effort into this post and project. I am interested to see where it goes.

well, Jon, right off, we may agree there are no DemiGods coming into this forum and declaring themselves a vampire whether they are 16 years old or mid 50s? Is that so?

Next topic in your statement is "that is for another topic discussion".  An Asetian human and soul condition.  Is your thought-leading you into an area best described as a former Asetian in another life with the Asetian soul being born into this physical human world without a complete Asetian soul but in this worldly body only in a semi Asetian soul situation?   How do you describe those mentioned as being "lost" and having the opportunity to become a full Asetian soul connection?  Or becoming an awakened Asetian and then "remember" their past situation?

I am sure this is a hot topic for many here that think with enough wishful thinking they will be sought out and brought into the Asetian group and be given the Dark Kiss.  I certainly do not see that happening myself, but what is your viewpoint on this topic?

Maxx wrote:well, Jon, right off, we may agree there are no DemiGods coming into this forum and declaring themselves a vampire whether they are 16 years old or mid 50s? Is that so?

I never said anything like that and no idea where you're getting those ideas from. We are debating Asetian knowledge it has nothing to do with what the people in this forum. People here are not members of the Order of Aset Ka.

Maxx wrote:Next topic in your statement is "that is for another topic discussion".  An Asetian human and soul condition.  Is your thought-leading you into an area best described as a former Asetian in another life with the Asetian soul being born into this physical human world without a complete Asetian soul but in this worldly body only in a semi Asetian soul situation?   How do you describe those mentioned as being "lost" and having the opportunity to become a full Asetian soul connection?  Or becoming an awakened Asetian and then "remember" their past situation?

No, I mean nothing like that. There are no semi Asetian souls and becoming a full Asetian as you're describing. If someone was an Asetian in a previous lifetime they will be an Asetian again now upon reincarnation. One never ceases to be Asetian, it's eternal.

The subject of lost Asetians has nothing to do with that but concerns people that have a hard time awakening into their nature, being confused and asleep to the higher realms and lost in what is the material plane. That can happen for example because of torture in previous lifetimes or magickal warfare.

I'm looking what others may have to say about this as well.

Jonathan wrote:

Maxx wrote:Are ALL Asetians Vampiric.  Or are there Asetian Humans?

Some say demigods although I'm not sure if that's the best description, but it may hold merit.

I was using your wording and it was a good description from early historical past of Kemet in my opinion.  Not saying I completely agreed with it but it opened up some possibilities.  Therefore If I was viewing the situation as the Asetian being a higher caliber than other society around them I would view them as the standard we would be speaking of and comparing the rest of society (humans).  Keeping that in the back of my mind I then see what you wrote in the other section and then see no high caliber person knocking on the door here declaring they are Vampire.  I certainly am aware there are no Asetians here and I have been stating that for a while now.

I did not want to get ahead in the discussion but I also am viewing what Mr Marques described on over around pages 45 and 46 comparing the Asetian magic and wisdom with what he described as rather commonly seen today in the Occult studies over the world.  It is a much lower caliber.

So In my mind, as I suspect you know, I see the ones entering the forum as not even relating to being lost and not yet awakened on their path.  Confused, yes.  But not looking like they would be Asetians in their previous lives.   I am just using the words of the book and then basing my opinions on that.   Do you feel I am misguided then with my assessment?  lol. If so, you might clear that up for me and in doing so, you might also give some new people entering the door here some gigantic hope for the future.

I might add that I am all for the Asetian culture but I have a problem with everyone that learns about them thinking they are a vampire that has not awakened yet.
My assumption, and that is exactly what I state here, is that if in a previous life of being an Asetian, they would have a somewhat higher common sense percentage than what is openly displayed across the VCN network.

Oh no I didn't mean that people joining here are lost Asetians. Just mentioned the existence of lost Asetians finding their ways back to the culture of the Aset Ka, didn't mean that is what's happening here in the forum.

I do agree with what you said now.

If you were an Asetian in a previous life, why would you not be an Asetian in this life? The thing is that they are just unawakened, if the case is that they're not remembering their true nature, for which they have to go through awakening but that can presumably take different amounts of time before they're able to undergo, or at least it appears from reading the works of Luis Marques. However, from my own common sense, not being an Asetian but still understanding certain innate principles of how a vampire or otherkin being would most likely act, through the dormant intuition of their true nature, they are less likely to proclaim it at all in public. Just by instinct... I believe.

Rhea Kaye wrote:Thanks for putting so much effort into this post and project. I am interested to see where it goes.

Thank you, also, Rhea Kaye.

I am currently just thinking over what to myself reply to some of the latest comments. Got to contemplate a little.

Anyway, there is enough said above for others to come in and add thoughts either way or even in some other direction which would open up some other thought process.  Everyone is openly invited to post their opinion and no one is going to jump on you for posting a very different view.

What we just opened in the dialogue above is a beginning of talking about the description Mr Marques gives in his writing on a little further into the pages.  We want to make sure we all understand what he is revealing in the topic regarding the difference in the Asetian Magic and wisdom and practices of non- Asetian magic and wisdom when we compare the two.

Jonathan wrote:Oh no I didn't mean that people joining here are lost Asetians.

I know you did not mean that.....but I wanted to place importance on that part because there are times when I have seen the very thing implied by comments of people coming in and saying that that they felt they were. lol

page 27 it says "the pages hold initiatory magick with the power to induce an active spiritual effect on the reader with adequate sensitivity.  There were some who experienced visions and long-forgotten memories of past lives while exploring the contents hereby presented. I shall not cloak the awareness of anyone reading these pages by stating that this book is safe and without consequence for I openly recognize that it is not."

Has any reader here experienced this?

To those that do not have a copy to read, I would say if one got into the study of this, there is a possibility you may fall into that category mentioned above and that you could recall past lives of being tortured during the wars or other parts of past lives in Egypt or before.

Myself, I am assuming it had some part in helping me shadow the life of Ay during the 18th dynasty.  There were some connections with Seti I and the warriors that followed him as well that I have been able to connect with.

Maxx wrote:on page 15, it goes on to say....In their dual essence and misunderstood existence, as ELEMENTAL FORCES OF NATURE, the Asetians may be gentle, loving, and protective, etc. AND...Asetians are the craftsmen of the subtle, the swordsmen of magick and the scholars of arcane wisdom...

This wording aligns the Asetian with THE forces of Nature.  Do you view this wording as being separate from a human Nature? Is the description close to the Elementals in creation we know of like unto gnomes, undines, sylphs, and salamanders?  It seems these beings are first mentioned in the 16th century.  Is there a connection at all?  There is implied a magic appearance here somewhat, or not?

Does the magic spoken of here imply that the Asetian utilizes a different component producing the magic referred to here?  If so, what is the basis or difference in the creation of the composition? Why and How is it acquired?  Through practice alone? or is there an anointing transferred? If not, why not?

I've contemplated that notion before but even before I heard/read of that notion - at least I believe - I kind of saw them as elemental forces of nature in a way, intuitively I guess, within a mental conception before my mind's eye. But... it's really hard to put words to, especially since this was many years ago. However, I'm not sure of them being in the same categories as the Medieval period classification of various elementals. I don't think that's the case at all as those beings are presumably not of the same caliber so as to make it any justice for comparison, just speaking objectively of course and from what I know. I had some experience when laying down in bed some time to fall asleep and I heard with my inner ear some subtle signals subtly calling for my attention from somewhere in or around my subtle body, I believe, and it was only by my voluntary decision of listening very closely to it that it at all became somewhat more audible. It had a distinct feel to it, a very strange and peculiar energy that I wasn't used to. But what I heard was that they presented themselves as "undines", that would be water elementals according to that Medieval classification. They essentially asked for my permission to work upon my subtle body for healing me a bit. I thouht about it a little to myself before responding to them and gave them the green light to go ahead. I could then feel that strange energy crawl with its peculiar kind of feeling a little bit here and there over my subtle body and it did feel a bit healing, but I'm not really sure what they worked on exactly and it could just have been a placebo on my part as I didn't feel that great of an effect even though I was appreciative of their effort, if that is now what happened. But what I'm drawing from this is that that's nowhere close to the level of the Asetians, who're of a way different nature, I believe. Also these undines, as they said they were, were much smaller, like the size of a foot at most, from what I felt. Also, funny to note, this was right after I had worked with the water element in meditation, so there was an interesting attraction and correlation in this taking place.

Also about the other question regarding Asetian magick, I believe it intimately ties into the Violet nature of Her Highness Aset and the Asetian Violet Flame. I'm not an expert by far on this but from what I've gathered that must be what gives the peculiarity to their magick being so distinctively unique, tied to the essence of the Goddess Herself. And that is simply something that is inborn to their nature as being a part of Her. Which makes me so strangely perplexed when I hear of how many have sought to plunder and deface that magick or seek to steal it for their own gain, which raises the question to me of... how do they think they can ever succeed? Aren't Asetians the only ones who can truly wield that magick in the first place, or at least, to some extent, their loyal followers potentially as well? I've understood that the Asetians are indomitable forces of nature, indeed. Although, then of course, we've also heard of that that is how the Sethians came to be, by Seth stealing and defacing the magick of Aset but that was by another Elder God!

Of course, the Elementals are much older than the 16th century when Paracelsus and his students first began writing about them.  Just as the accounts of Aset and her groups go back way beyond the First Dynasty and beyond in Kemet.  Even the Elementals which are different in personality are way before that.   The dif is, of course, their personality and the purpose of creation. Each is here to fulfill the mission which they are created for.  I thought it outstanding the word Elemental was used in that context.

Your description of communication with those elemental beings sounds accurate.  A contact leaves you knowing without a shadow of a doubt that it was not of your making or your imagination.  When that message comes into your being you can tell the difference from your own mind.  It is good to begin having communication with other types of beings to learn how the feel is different from your own thoughts and how that vibration feels very much in a league of its own.

So if we are assuming there is a difference in a vibrational or frequency of an Asetian being as Mr. Marques is implying in the writing (and in reading it I put this application to it because one can determine a difference in the vibrational frequency of any human to tell them apart), there would certainly be a difference from a human from an Asetian and would be able to distinguish those from one another, I am assuming that there would also be a difference in the Magical abilities between the two. Would this be sensible for you to agree or not?

When one can know the identity of someone appearing in bi-location mode, it stands to reason that knowledge of the fact is received through a vibrational frequency. I think that is how PLM must have recognized the appearance in her room in that way of that person. Everything seems to have its own vibrational identity and I would think the magical ability would be changed as well.

Thank you for putting so much effort into all of this, Mystic. Unfortunately my internet has been very unstable lately and I am not sure if I can consistently contribute in this project. I have already re-written this message five times, lol. To begin with, Asetianism is the only path I have come across that has managed to fully unite the different valid areas of science with magick and spirituality. I agree that this is something that places their own approach and knowledge apart from different, less complete approaches towards occultism, which are not unified and lack understanding. It is also one that takes many years and is constantly evolving, in many ways requiring even lifetimes to be complete. It is tied to the cycles of reincarnation in those ways. They are also the first ones to explain the true reason for the immortality of the vampire and how it is tied to that process. I agree with Jonathan about the existence of non-vampiric Asetians. I think this is something that wasn't explained as deeply in the original Asetian Bible, whereas it is explained much more clearly in the Violet Throne, as the focus in the VT seems to be more about their nature as children of Aset as a whole, and how vampirism connects due to that reality as a consequence and aftermath, which would be considered a secondary trait in that regard. About the possible situation of human Asetians, I believe they wouldn't be considered really human in either scenario, as the true identity and nature is to be found in their own Ba, and not their energy and hence the Ka, which can be completely different and non-reflective of their true nature, in many scenarios. Although Maxx, I believe I understand how you meant this in a different way, and it seems to be in line with my understanding as well, if that is the case. I think this was described in the original Asetian Bible, indirectly, that unawakened Asetians still undergo the process of the dark kiss or a similar ritual to it after they have been already identified as Asetians. I think this would be considered the true awakening of a lost Asetian in metaphysical terms, and a way to reconnect themselves completely to their soul and re-ignite that spark within. The description about elementals, reminds me of various tweets by Luis Marques talking about how their existence and energy alone has caused changes, inspired people and influenced thinking, across the different Djehutys. There is also a very big difference in the nature of spirit beings, and I agree that through working with different entities, one can observe how truly different the energies of those different beings are, and although it is not an objective form of confirmation, it is one of the best tools in terms of openness and sensitivity to the spirit world, even if albeit subjective. I've had experience with the form of projection you describe, I remember when noticing these different vibrations I could see the position of the Moon and the sea in the place I went to, and used them as reference points to then describe different parts of the city, roads and nearby buildings with detail, which reminded me of the elemental forces as you explained them, though It is important to confirm such things with another individual who might live in the target area, otherwise you cannot be confident enough that you are progressing into the actual astral realm and that you aren't only influencing and projecting in the inner plane, and the inner realms of others, an illusion that is very dangerous and something that shouldn't be discarded, but instead worked with in combination with the astral plane. When a connection is done this way with another person, it shouldn't be taken lightly, as it relies on a whole different level of connection which holds many dangers, but I am getting slightly off-topic. I believe there are better ways to project than the one described by PLM, as that is usually where many people commonly fall in the trap of ego, and do not make further effort to move higher than the inner realm which is the throne of ego. About the last topic with the difference between Asetian and non-Asetian magick, I believe that is only fully accessible by the Asetians themselves, as it is inherently tied to their nature and essence, although I am sure we are all very grateful for the knowledge we are able to access, and the part of the magick that we can practice, which has been shared mainly through the books themselves.

Naoom, please be aware of paragraphs. lol.  They are important to keep thoughts straight.

Maybe one helpful scene I can add into the picture you painted is to think about all the different Beings, Spirits, Elementals, and others, all having their home and place in the SAME location, only on different frequencies and vibrations.  Many beings I am aware of that are around me at all times, or they have instant access to this section at all times. We all know this is the lowest vibration and the only other way is higher.  lol.  

Of course, the Asetian magick is of a higher caliber, as that is inferred in the book's statement.  He even makes that statement.

As far as what PLM described, I may not have described it in a way that does it justice but I know it as fact....as I am the one that appeared in the room like a mist, and she was aware of who it was because of the vibration.  She is the first person I am aware of that is awake enough to recognize that vibration of each individual that would enable her to know who it is.  I have done it rather frequently with others but they were not as aware enough to see me or the mist.  They only know that they begin to think of me on several days and wind up calling me if they know how to reach me.  I know this happens with many and most are not aware of what they are doing and projecting through the consciousness and distance.  This is not super duper vampire magic.  It is not even common magic. This is how we are created. All of us.  But you can be certain that there are no secrets to an advanced Asetian magician.  This is why they have no need to get into heated exchanges over the net or in person.  Things can be controlled behind the scenes.

And for any new people reading this, I certainly am not Asetian. I am a happy, happy hooman. lol

From page 41
We are speaking of Asetian Magick (as Mr. Marques spells it).  I was very surprised to see that he is very plainly stating that everyone, both human and Asetian, has within these pages the info to facilitate what has been spoken of for ages the ability to acquire the GREAT WORK.  Within the occult area, we have all heard mention that term.  

He is saying (in my thinking) that whether Asetian or not, an educated person can develop the ability to acquire what is needed to create within his/her soul that goal using this material.  This was a surprise to me as we are talking above about the Asetian being a higher creation than the human because of the difference in the soul. (note: he does not say there is a broken soul problem as we find in the VCN as a description). But throughout the ages, the magical ability is freely given to the human to experience this as long as the path is walked correctly.  But without the correct path, whether Asetian or not, the danger of experiencing this study can be destructive to that soul, whether Asetian or human.

Could this be why the written material from Mr. Marques has now been released... to allow even humans to participate in the higher realms of occult knowledge?  This same material that ancient Asetians used to develop this higher Wisdom base?

Or do you see this as written toward a different result and saying something else entirely?  I believe many of us will see the same paragraph in many different meanings here?

He says that the Order and its teachings are not a closed shell of information and were developed over a broad range of the multilayered occult spectrum.  And coming soon he does speak about a description of the Vampire subject.

Also, A. Nightside, if you run into Seeker out there in the Universe any place, tell him to come on back and get involved here.....as well as yourself.....thanks. Maybe he could add something interesting to the comments.

Maxx wrote:Could this be why the written material from Mr. Marques has now been released... to allow even humans to participate in the higher realms of occult knowledge?  This same material that ancient Asetians used to develop this higher Wisdom base?

Or do you see this as written toward a different result and saying something else entirely?  I believe many of us will see the same paragraph in many different meanings here?

That's a quite deep going question but I believe it primarily ties into, like the Asetian Bible, for instance, being a beacon for lost Asetians but also past life Asetianists or even new people who are inclined to follow the path and can, as speculated before here many times, hold great strategical implications but of which I know virtually nothing. I also believe human Asetianists have been a part of the Order of Aset Ka but that is nothing I can confirm of course but I believe it highly likely, if not even Luis Marques has mentioned it in his books. But... as for "allowing even humans to participate in the higher realms of occult knowledge", then, how do you mean with this? Do you mean with the view of not just Asetianists but other groups as well who would draw inspiration and influence from the Aset Ka? I don't really know and I have no deeper insight into this really.

Maxx wrote:From page 41
We are speaking of Asetian Magick (as Mr. Marques spells it).  I was very surprised to see that he is very plainly stating that everyone, both human and Asetian, has within these pages the info to facilitate what has been spoken of for ages the ability to acquire the GREAT WORK.  Within the occult area, we have all heard mention that term.  

He is saying (in my thinking) that whether Asetian or not, an educated person can develop the ability to acquire what is needed to create within his/her soul that goal using this material.  This was a surprise to me as we are talking above about the Asetian being a higher creation than the human because of the difference in the soul. (note: he does not say there is a broken soul problem as we find in the VCN as a description). But throughout the ages, the magical ability is freely given to the human to experience this as long as the path is walked correctly.  But without the correct path, whether Asetian or not, the danger of experiencing this study can be destructive to that soul, whether Asetian or human.

Could this be why the written material from Mr. Marques has now been released... to allow even humans to participate in the higher realms of occult knowledge?  This same material that ancient Asetians used to develop this higher Wisdom base?

Or do you see this as written toward a different result and saying something else entirely?  I believe many of us will see the same paragraph in many different meanings here?

He says that the Order and its teachings are not a closed shell of information and were developed over a broad range of the multilayered occult spectrum.  And coming soon he does speak about a description of the Vampire subject.

Oh definitely, it is about both the Asetians as well as humans. I think the reason is that even though the Asetians have in fact reached the Divine plane and that highest level of consciousness, they still go through that process of self-discovery and initiation every time they incarnate again. I believe there is a certain magick of alchemy in that, which allows for evolution that does not really ever stop. For example, many occultists have come to see the Great Work and that crossing of the Abyss as the ultimate goal of any genuine spiritual path, when in reality the true path never truly ends or is finished, and a bigger number of options and pathways appear after that goal has been reached.

What you said about the dangers of this work is very real, and shows why this kind of magick is one of the most dangerous and risky forms of magick, yet probably one of the most, if not the most rewarding, at the same time. I believe this is one of the main reasons reasons on why the Aset Ka has published this information out in the open, because people will always attempt and make effort to reach these higher levels in either scenario, and many will fail inevitably, despite the lack or access to such knowledge.

This way we can be equipped with better knowledge and deeper understanding, but it also explains the true reason for such a pursuit, which is not about power, but inner alchemy, which seems to be the highest form of magick. Additionally, he also gives a detailed description of the true origins of the Qabbalah, and the Tree of Life, and helps dispel misinformation which unfortunately is literally everywhere, especially concerning this subject, in my opinion. This explains the literal initiation and magick of this knowledge, which is a different approach than what is commonly seen while studying this area and magick. It is real and ever-changing, not something we are able to fully conceptualize.

This is one thing I enjoy both about the BoO and the Primal Craft books, the fact that the explanations given are not as rigid as they are in other books, and are not revolving around our world and normal wakeful understanding. A trap that a lot of occultists tend to fall into quite commonly is getting wrapped up in theory and writings, and losing the main idea and focus behind the magick, which is the alchemy and practice itself within any path when the time arrives.

One thing I find fascinating in this book, is the description of the higher self in conjunction with the Divine Self. It explains the role of that being quite clearly when compared to the incomplete and vague description of the Holy Guardian Angel found in Thelema, or other descriptions which tend to either see it as a completely separate entity, or simply a psychological projection of our own unconscious. Both of these descriptions sound incomplete when compared to how Luis Marques describes it, which explains the Self as consisting of many different layers. I much prefer the term Microcosmic Magick for that reason, which entails all of those things.

I'll admit, the sheer size of all the text on here, and the subject itself (to which my knowlege is still quite limited) is a bit overwhelming, .. or intimidating. I've been coming back logged in or not and reading this thread a few times since it was posted. Trying to not only finish the whole thing, but also to try and form any thoughts on the matter. I'm enjoying the comments and discussion, but even that is difficult for me to get through.  

I feel like those statements come off very childish and I am so sorry for that. I feel like that's super disrespectful. I very much appreciate the effort you put into this Mystic. I just struggle with lengthy reads lately. Not sure if it's an attention span/anxiety thing, a comprehension thing (maybe it's just too much to compute) or just unidentified laziness or whatever else it could be.

So, here goes attempt #1 at responding to the OP. I may or may not get to the additional considerations that Maxx brought to the table (...am I supposed to remember or know who Seeker is?).

QUOTATIONS OF THE DISCLAIMER (FOR DISCUSSION)

Violet Throne, from page 15: “Asetians are by no means harmless beings or the personification of kindness. They do not abide by social standards nor fall under the understanding of the common mind. In the silence and darkness of their inscrutable nature they are not known to be social and often do not nurture an inborn friendliness over society. Their ageless culture is built upon predatory occultism, the dark arts, a powerful layer of spirituality and secrets long forgotten to mankind.”

There are also many other passages to go over, but since the length of the Disclaimer is very short, I won't include it fully here, of course. But we can go into greater depths of discussion regarding the rest of Disclaimer anyways, however I'll cite just this for reference myself in this original post. I'll simply raise this question for this quote: how do you balance, acknowledge or embrace such an understanding in its depths and what implications does it hold?

This might turn out to be entirely irrelevant psychobabble, though I hope not. You have been warned.

It's very likely that I may not be using the most effective words for this, so consider much of it to be "for lack/want of better words". I'll spare you the speculative excuse for why choosing the right words feels like such a dilemma.

I suppose it's unsettling, but also not.
I mean, I consider myself to be generally opposite from this description (clearly I'm no Asetian ). However, this gives off a very Nature-based, Primal kind of cultural vibe. Nature is all about individuals feeding on each other, whether they work with or against each other. Even in plants, there is virtually no organism (to my knowledge) that survives without drawing from or wholly using another.

Predators are rarely harmless. So too, though, they aren't outright harmful either. One doesn't have to be the personification of kindness to be kind. In Nature there are many ways to feed and acquire sustenance from prey. Some are patient and calculated. Some seemingly go with sheer brute force. Some manipulate, others subsist on a mutually beneficial relationship. Predators aren't just predators. They can be parasites and symbiotic as well, even related organisms in a social group. They compete with each other and work together.

I'm thinking of social standards as laws or rules, which is probably not what this is referring to. I think any entity, especially if/when [re]incarnated into a human body are held to the same laws (of the 'land' per perceived governmental authority) as any other and must follow them to some extent (or be good at hiding) in order to avoid unfavorable consequences.

Beyond that, not following superficial social standards. Things like gender roles, body language and other social ques or constructs, I can understand to some depth. This makes it sound like a choice, whereas in my case it just is. Some social standards just don't compute, don't come naturally, don't make much sense. It's difficult to be social and perceived as friendly if you do not use, or can not effectively follow social standards.

"Predatory Occultism" is too often used (at least outside these forums) as an excuse to abuse and misuse people or cause harm in one's practices. I'm not OK with that. However, the larger description here, the context, just sounds like basic Laws of Nature. While humans are certainly animals and as much a part of nature as any plant or animal, as a species, they/we tend to be a bit more removed to the more subtle aspects of Nature itself. They/We are often a bit more deaf or blind to our instincts often over-analyzing simple things and under-analyzing complex things. I've experienced, and discussed with others, a semi-consistency in a sort of disconnectedness from the generalized entity of humanity with an increased connectedness to Nature.

How do I balance, acknowledge or embrace this understanding (as quoted above) in its depths? Asetians are simply entities of true Nature.
What implications might this hold? Nature is not always comfortable or pleasant. Though many strive for "light and love" and "all natural" things, often the two are not things that can exist purely together. I don't recall exactly how the quote goes, nor where I saw it (or if I made it up myself, which I doubt and you're welcome to as well), "without light there is no shadow, without shadow there is no sight" - That is Nature. Nature is not always perfect balance (50/50) of light and dark. It is not always kittens and rainbows. Conversely, it's not all doom and gloom either. It is an ever fluctuating balance. It just is.

Also, it really doesn't matter if it is Absolute Truth or just another spirituality that simply requires faith, because of the Natural/Primal aspect (at least that I percieve from the text above) it's going to draw in people. Human beings are beings of nature, no matter how removed they might be in actuality. We crave that connection, that primal and natural essence or experience, but because we often mislead ourselves with ideals like good versus evil, and we've watered down our perspectives by focusing so hard on things like light and positive energy. Many will also be repelled and repulsed.