VT Study Series # 1: Disclaimer and Introduction

Naoom, your statement  "This is one thing I enjoy both about the BoO and the Primal Craft books, the fact that the explanations given are not as rigid as they are in other books" seems very strange to me.

I see the Primal Craft books as directed towards an entirely different purpose and outcome.  Since their first inception released to the public, I sense an even stronger vibration toward the darker path than initially created.  I do not necessarily see the two running completely toward the same goal.  There is a different goal for each publication. I hope you are not seeing these in the same light.

I agree with you, Maxx. initially, those two seem to have descriptions and knowledge very close to each other, in parallel ways, but if we take out the factor of spirits and associations, it becomes much more clear how they are very different at core, and how these different final goals of each path are not the same at the end of the day.

My own experiences with the Primal Craft was that the author has presented those teachings in a way that you cannot take out one factor of the work, and work with the rest of the system separately yet still in the ways it is presented therein. What I mean is that the Spirits present in the books themselves are very interlinked with each other and bound with the thought-forms of the author, and the path is very strict to that principle, because someone would have to work with all the beings of the path in its entirety despite the fact they may not feel called to work with all of them, but only a select few. I believe this is a downside to anyone who who wants to study the book for its knowledge without following the path and devoting themselves fully, but the author himself has said there are people who have made contact with those beings independently and have created tangential paths which are just as genuine as his own.

I now understand what Jonathan meant when in the past he claimed in another thread that in his experience a lot of those things are connected directly to the author in many ways, which can be misleading and limiting, in my opinion. I therefore believe that the vibrations and energies of those different paths are not directly compatible, and I think that a person who followed such a tradition, or had come in contact with those beings in a previous life, and those who worked through the book for a period of time solely without any other practice of other traditions yet stopped, will probably be able to integrate that magick over a long period of time within their current path, if they ever come across Asetianism to give a prime example. I don't believe anyone can work with both of those systems in particular at the same time period without experiencing a divide between the two which would reflect in their own lives, consequently.

For example, I had went through the main ritual of the first book in the past many years ago before even reading the book itself, and it took me a very long time and effort to see how it can integrate in my current path of Asetianism, and how that is a vastly different approach in comparison to the Qabbalah and the magick present in the BoO, which is worked very differently and has different purposes for the initiation of the same spheres.

Despite that, I believe a big part of the knowledge itself within Primal Craft is genuine and can be a good contribution to spiritual growth, if integrated in such a manner, yet I still don't believe that someone is able to work through both systems at the same time. A way to illustrate this is that both paths require deep and genuine devotion, in order for their magick to become ignited. This is simply not possible due to being in contact with both at the same lifetime, and instead of them working together they will end up working against each other and ourselves, since they take the time and energy out of each other, if that makes sense.

I don't think that is to say the Primal Craft is a lesser system or a disingenuous one, I just find it only works well for those people who choose to follow it completely and with all their heart. I understand that these work very differently, but the information about the Tree of Life presented in both is very valuable. For example in the Primal Craft books, it mentions how one can work with both sides of the Tree during their initiation and be able to shift their course depending on their needs, even though that path itself specifically leans towards the Qlippothic aspect. This knowledge for example, I can see how it could apply to someone working through the Qabbalah within Asetianism, as it doesn't make any direct distinction of a preference towards either side of the Tree.

To conclude, I believe we have come to the same understanding regarding this, and I believe that attempting to work through different systems such as this is always a valuable lesson, even if the magick itself does not lead anywhere directly, as it shows the differences between the two and that helps us understand more about our own path and practice. By having a correct mindset as described by Luis Marques, there is nothing to be afraid for when coming in contact with other traditions and paths, and it is very valuable at the end of the day. I do not longer work with the Primal Craft books, but I thought it was a great example as to how those descriptions of the Tree of Life are very different in traditional occultism than it is in many popular books and how-to guides to the Qabbalah.

Personally I have worked through the first two books and I still overview the third in the Primal Craft series.  It has been very meaningful in events from that time forward.  I see how real they are.  I was going to disagree with the first part of your comment until you stated the author said there are exceptions in having to completely experience all of the rituals in order to progress into the next phase.  My friend was told by a particular Being to NOT participate like the book taught and to do it differently or not at all.  She contacted Mark regarding that so I assume he is using her as one reference to that fact.  I also did not completely exercise all rituals as instructed in the series. I was just flat out led not to do certain ones. But they are real.

At this point in time, I do not find very much connection between the two systems except I can verify the Primal Craft is certainly real.

But moving away from that commentary, I would like to ask a question to the group in regard to the initiation of the Pharaoh.  No matter what age at the anointing, and before the march and the procession in front of the people, the Priesthood anointed the new Pharaoh and it was seen that one of the Gods indwelled the Pharoah.  If not, that Pharaoh was not granted the position.

In that anointing, the human body was entered by a particular God.  One can research and find accounts of this very easily.  

My question and how you view this, is that God entering on a permanent basis or is that anointing very similar to what is detailed as being channeled in today's view of a person channeling views and news from the higher dimension?  The reason for this question is because we can see accounts of some historical actions taken by different Pharaohs of being very ordinary and being wrong actions and some decisions as being devastating for the betterment of the situation.  

Bear in mind, I am looking at the infilling of the Pharaoh as a legitimate action in one of the tests that the selected person is qualified.  Another is the 3 day vacating of the physical body to enter a higher dimension and bringing back specific information as testing for being qualified.  There are others but no need to continue.

Would you describe this as channeling or not?

I'd believe myself there to be a conscious connection between the Pharaoh and the God. The Pharaoh would be in touch and communion with the God in a consciousness connection, similar to how the Yogis describe their union with the ultimate reality of Spirit. "Shivoham" - I am Shiva. "Aham Brahmasmi" - I am Brahman, the Absolute. Out of that then they might of course channel higher information through the divinized vessel of their purified body and mind, seemingly as the Pharaohs were raised to godlike stature themselves, and possibly tying into the whole subject of the ingestion of this gold substance as discussed by you in another thread, Maxx. But that's just my interpretation, apart from this I don't really know.

I think it's a great discussion, though. Keep up the contributions, because you're adding good value to the thread and so to the forum itself. This is the kind of maturity that's so helpful to the onflow of healthy discussion, by all the participants. I think we have a lot more to exhaust here before we move on to the next thread.

I also thought of replying to A.Nightside but I'll see if I get more thoughts later, however I saw it as an insigthful response upon that subject matter. Very good!

In your thought process, do you see the Pharaoh being indwelled by the God or Being on a part-time or a full-time basis?  That is the question I would like to hear regarding how the forum views it and maybe giving a reason why they would believe either way? Also, some may feel what difference does it make?  I think it may make a difference as I was asked this very question from the Spirit realm.

This is what brought the question to my mind. Going to bed, I sat down on the side of the bed at midnight two nights ago, and this question immediately popped into my head? I had not had any thoughts regarding this topic at all.  So I was asked how do I view the possession event?  Should I really be viewing this in the terminology we look at with the possession in today's era as a description of channeling as modern situations are seen differently today?   Or is the process one that is way out of similar connection even tho time has changed how we describe things when we talk about ancient times passed?  Bear in mind, the actual answer to this question would really affect the magical rituals that are described within this book as it would reflect on the elevated participation of the actual God while in the ritual and the power of the magic when released, or is the human being just possessed by the God on a part-time basis.  I believe this would have much bearing on the magick itself if that actual God was within the Pharaoh full time. And the fact we talk about the Aset connection. Whether it is AsetKa or ROS, this is still possession of some type.

And I really was serious when I said at the beginning the discussion on this book can carry forward for a very long time because it brings up much conversation material. lol.

Curious question. To me it feels like most of those Pharaohs would have been actual incarnated immortals calling down certain forces, rather than being possessed. But what of the cases of the human Pharaohs who took over after the AK disappeared into the shadows? Curious indeed. Well, we know it is beyond the power of mortals to call down any divinity. So I am left contemplating what would be the alternative.

I resonate with what Rhea said, since we know that power in Egypt has fluctuated during history between the Aset Ka and the Sethians at different time periods and that during those times Pharaohs have been actual Asetians and Sethians in power. So those Pharaohs were literally incarnated immortals. There was also the time for human rule, where the Pharaohs were humans who inherited the throne. During those times it's possible also to consider Asetian and Sethian influences at court in a more subtle way, probably behind the shadows and in secrecy, likely from the priesthood as well.

All of this will be a long discussion since there is a wealth of material to explore as Maxx mentioned.

English dictionary definition of immortal. adj. 1. Not subject to death: immortal deities; the immortal soul.

I think we should dig just a little deeper into the picture of this word meaning and how it attaches to the Asetians and how this would make a difference between the rulers of complete Asetians and the human Pharaohs. But I believe there is a section later in the book that brings this up. So later...unless you want to spotlight it here.

Rhea Kaye wrote: Curious indeed. Well, we know it is beyond the power of mortals to call down any divinity. So I am left contemplating what would be the alternative.

then I might ask the question, Why did the Priesthood have to declare that the God had entered and chosen the Pharaoh to be the new ruler. This was done in secret away from the common people. Hence the ritual. Then the possession being carried through the crowd to be recognized by all. But something went on behind closed doors with the inner court before this took place.

Actually, what this is discussing is the heart of the issue, the difference between a Real Vampire and those who just call themselves vampire and mentally associate with the name. I do not think you will find any Vampires throughout the VCN. (My whole point in going after this. LOL.)

Please note: for those that do not have the book he states on page 44....no genuine vampire literature would disclose the secrets of magical feeding to outsiders...  So this should say to those wanting to know on this site anything that has to do about feeding....you will not get a real answer to any of it.

continuing he says "there is much speculation and deceitful FANTASY being displayed in contemporary media, explored by a society that preys on ignorance and misinformation.  He says he is presenting for the first time an honest account of real vampirism as opposed to the delusional reality perpetrated by charlatans and roleplayers. He states this info is a much-needed reference for both vampires and humans that can be used as a default source in information in the examination, debate, and study of vampirism, energy work, and the secretive path of wisdom known as Asetianism.

He clearly says the pyramids of Khufu and Khafre, on page 51, were used for initiatory purposes. Previously on this site, we have done some individual experiments traveling into those sites to learn there are Spirit Beings that even now guard those sites astrally and keep out those that were not considered ready for whatever reason to enter in spirit, and these individuals were not allowed to enter those special places.  Many will be the time when we find confirmation in more than one place in the book about what the spirit world will reveal to us.

Does anyone actually believe these were burial chambers?

I understand them to be initiatory chambers way more than just serving as burial chambers. Apart from that collected understanding I don't have much knowledge upon it.

However, I wonder if the people here participating think we should move on to the next thread in the study series or if we should discuss further here? I don't have a lot more to add personally, at least not under present circumstance. We'd move to the Asetian Bible's introduction within the Violet Throne. I wonder if anyone would like to follow this same format and create that thread on their own, asked only out of cordiality of course and to see if anyone has any better idea on how they wish to lay it out who'd have a certain interest in passages that are especially striking? But otherwise I'll try my best. Remember that this is a community effort much more so - at least for as on Vampirism Forum - so I don't wish to take monopoly upon the creation of all these threads and might not even have the best eyes of observation to select the most striking passages at all times. The Asetian Bible's introduction appeared far more tricky to me to select specific passages out of when I skimmed through it last time.

My reasoning for using the words burial chambers comes from the Rothschild stooge Zahi Hawass who was responsible for many treasures to disappear from Egypt in secret. He called this "burial chambers for the Kings."

No problem with moving into the Asetian Bible area as when you make your post, anyone can add to it as they see something that looks interesting to them.

Wait a minute, this struck my interest - aren't the Rothschilds associated with the Red Order of Set? I could be wrong on that and I certainly can't speak with confidence on it, but if so, that would be a rather interesting connection....

the Rothschild family put Hawass into the Egyptian Antiquity position...I wonder why he was chosen....he finished last in his class and his degree was bought.  I will give you 3 guesses where all the pieces that disappear all go to.  Many of those pieces had so much high-frequency energy rolling off them, one could feel it rolling off when you got anyplace near them.  The elite certainly have the opportunity to use these pieces in ceremonies now.

And this is the connection to the Vatican hideaway.

Is this ongoing? I've a recently developed interest in an extensive study of the V.T.

yes.  Somewhat.  I tried to get this group interested in the study and walking through the VT for all but it is almost an impossibility to find anyone wanting to study it. It took over a month to perform the disclaimer and get it up, as Jonathan stated. He and I agree on that part.

It should not seem that difficult to put together a book review of a book that is already written and come in to discuss it.  But the comments ranged anywhere from I cannot get my thoughts together on this or I need more time to think about what I want to say, etc.  It is almost like many are using this book for a cover to come together but not to view it seriously while proclaiming it is so serious.  

So I wish you would put new life into it.  I am not one to do it as I am an outsider here and not part of this clique anymore.  But again, I think you would be perfect to project it further.

I am intending to contribute once it has arrived.

Tehom wrote:Is this ongoing? I've a recently developed interest in an extensive study of the V.T.  

Yes. Mystic is leading that project and he is working on further iterations of the study group. If you're interested in contributing or joining forces with Mystic on this I'm pretty sure he will be welcoming of your help. Shoot him a PM and discuss that with him directly.

p.15 "Asetians are by no means harmless beings or the personification of kindness. They do not abide by social standards nor fall under the understanding of the common mind. In the silence and darkness of their inscrutable nature they are not known to be social and often do not nurture an inborn friendliness over society. Their ageless culture is built upon predatory occultism, the dark arts, a powerful layer of spirituality and secrets long forgotten to mankind.”

Q - How do you balance, acknowledge or embrace such an understanding in its depths and what implications does it hold?

Given how society as it stands now is a constructed framework made up of dominant expectations and something of a collective, Asetians not standing by social standards doesn't immediately strike me as being a surprise. An increasing number of people are seeing the stagnancy and suffocation of nature and the self and expressing their dissatisfaction with society as it stands.

Darkness is even defined at one point as "a concept often misunderstood through blind dogma, the ignorance of popular culture and the misinformation of the media" grounded in "dwelling into the hidden branches of wisdom that deal with secret, silent and intricate practices that oppose the materialistic and superficial minds of ordinary society" (p.42). Darkness does not solely mean wickedness or evil. It also refers to obscurity and concealment. So having a nature that is seeped in darkness using the definition stated within the VT makes complete sense and is how the ancient mysteries have always been: private, difficult to discern and feared by those external to them.

Looking at society as it stands now, tearing itself apart and ignoring the calls to save those who need protecting, ignoring again still the cries of the planet itself, I can understand there being a frequent lack of inborn friendliness to the conceptualisation as a whole. Humans on their own, not all that bad. Small groups? More chance of problems. En-mass and controlled by those who do not truly understand the implications of power? It is a recipe for disaster brewing within the worst of the nature of mankind, fuelled by greed and ego.

p.23 “With its detached silence and experienced approach the Aset Ka pioneered vampiric magick and its secretive methods of initiation, revealing the spirituality of the Asetians alongside vital knowledge of advanced metaphysics and subtle anatomy that connected for the first time the practice and nature of vampirism with the ancient foundations of a spiritual path that reestablished a timeless culture of balance, growth and wisdom.”

Q - What's your view on it?

It resonates. If there is no growth and balance, how can there be adaptation, learning and evolution? Stagnancy makes no sense. While I have no problem with balls, dancing and social occasions as a concept as something rather light-hearted, when that is all there seems to be and when public display is placed on a pedestal, I do wonder where the progression and evolution comes into play. Self- and external awareness and khepri in a quieter and more private setting makes significantly more sense. Constantly learning and discovering without needing to shout it from the rooftops. Being rather than advertising.

The discovery of a tradition that prizes loyalty, evolution, spirituality and magick certainly has far more of a depth that I seek to immerse myself within as I slowly but surely take those baby steps.

To be more succinct, my view is that the revelation by the Aset Ka of its tradition, followed now by both awakened and unawakened Asetians and Asetianists alike, was long-needed. A foundation unshaken by time.

p.25 “Many feel the need for direct contact, personal tutoring and guidance but often seek it as a reflection of insecurity towards their own abilities. Those who fear loneliness surround themselves with others to feel safe and their journey ends but those who overcome such fears embrace the eternal crossing alone and find the liberating force of their own strength.”

Q - What are your opinions upon all of this?

It makes sense, regarding seeking out personal guidance as a reflection of insecurity. To find in oneself both teacher and student takes a degree of strength and a defeating of ego. It takes both strength and humbleness to be truly grounding and liberating. While mentorship in certain settings is invaluable, I've always personally defined it as a two-way relationship; a mutual learning. Too often have I seen it not be that -- to see it used for manipulation and control.

As the tradition particularly inclines towards the discovery of the self in solitude as a matter of initiation even if not into the deeper Mysteries, not having someone around to hand-hold makes an exceptional amount of sense. After all, we can be surrounded by friends and family on the death-bed but it is only the isolated self that will make that onward journal and return.

So too does it make sense to go through a rebirth and transformation in much the same way, regardless of ones connections outside of the tradition. You are responsible for your own evolution, awakening and awareness.

I often see people asking for spells in a few magick groups I am in and it makes me wince. It isn't even 'Does anyone have any resources for working with X plant or any suggestions for using X energy in my rituals?'. It is asking for everything with no respect to the time, energy and dedication that those gathering those resources through toil have done.

page 27 it says "the pages hold initiatory magick with the power to induce an active spiritual effect on the reader with adequate sensitivity. There were some who experienced visions and long-forgotten memories of past lives while exploring the contents hereby presented. I shall not cloak the awareness of anyone reading these pages by stating that this book is safe and without consequence for I openly recognize that it is not."

Q - Has any reader here experienced this?

Given how my sensitivity is still developing like the barest hint of a root out of a seed reaching towards the sunlight to put it into my own words, I am cautious to describe my draw to the tradition as along these lines. But it does certainly make sense given how it altogether presents and feels like such a gateway. Something to reflect on later on down the line..

Now to present a quote of my own for discussion!

p.13 "They, above all, protect wisdom, shield innocence and enforce loyalty, honour and union."

Is this study planned to go into Book of Orion territory or should that be tackled in a parallel study group? There is a lot of potential for mystical experiences and experimentation with Sigillum 333, the three secrets and initiations of Orion, the Orion Key, Tree of Life pathworking and even the three Sebayt in the Book of Giza, although this last one likely needs a full dedicated study just for it due to its depth and complexity.

I thought it was supposed to go into the Book of Orion as well, which I am looking forward to more as there are certain details about the Sigil I've been noticing and puzzling over.