Vampire Watchers

What you say about America does make a lot of sense.

Being American myself, sometimes I am ashamed of my heritage when I see the way the American community tends to act - as when they claim, for example, that the birthplace of the highest vampire culture occurred in New York, or Gotham. Mostly the culture seems like a lot of roleplay and confused people stumbling around, screaming about how they made this or that Vampire House with all kinds of misinformed crap centering around Lillith and other embarrassingly inaccurate nonsense. In a way, it also reflects the American culture of consumerism and the fantasy of quick, easy answers to every problem. I give two thumbs up for the fantastic nature locations though.

Nice for you to show up, Lightseeker. I had been perusing this forum thread not long ago, finding it fascinating to read...

But it raises some questions; how much are you allowed to disclose, or answer about it - if not allowed to the diclose too much, of course? This could hold a potentially very interesting and thoughtful discussion with information of various kind relevant to the subject, even if merely kept to a minimum of information permitted to be released by you, I think, as it might be noteworthy still. It just would seem strange if you were to answer somewhat critical questions, which I do not expect you to do. However, it does raise another question simply by the virtue of you entering upon this forum alone with even this post if they are so very secretive, seeming to represent the "Watcher Group" - are they perhaps in some way opening up their doors and windows for the public, albeit to a lesser extent? Or were their previously supposed websites authentic, so this is nothing new?

Jonathan wrote:Their lodges out of Europe are minor, even though they operate on a global scale, but they focus in Europe as the center stage of vampire and occult influence.

That is very true. I am honestly only aware of a small group or chapter (we don't really use the word "lodges" because we want to avoid being confused with freemasonry etc.) in New Orleans. The main seat of the Council at the moment is located in the UK which has always been a center of occult activities since at least the 19th century - for example the "Golden Dawn" originated there and had a great influence on the occult community as a whole.

Also, the last really publicised and well documented  vampiric activity also occured in London, being of course the Highgate Vampire. Members of the Watchers participated in the investigation alongside the BPOS (although I am not sure if the BPOS was aware of the fact).

Rhea Kaye wrote: Mostly the culture seems like a lot of roleplay and confused people stumbling around, screaming about how they made this or that Vampire House with all kinds of misinformed crap centering around Lillith and other embarrassingly inaccurate nonsense.

I totally agree. We would never take an individual like for example Father Sebastiaan seriously or find that he warrants an investigation. I am not saying that he isn't a sincere spiritual seeker but one just can't take his claims about vampirism seriously if compared for example to the Asetian Bible.

MysticLightShinethForth wrote:Nice for you to show up, Lightseeker. I had been perusing this forum thread not long ago, finding it fascinating to read...

But it raises some questions; how much are you allowed to disclose, or answer about it - if not allowed to the diclose too much, of course?

Well, I'll put it this way: There are quite a few things I can tell you about, but as I said I do not know everything and will certainly not be able to answer all questions. Things that I am not allowed to disclose include the exact location of chapters, the precise occult methods we employ in our investigations and exact activities we are currently involved in.

It just would seem strange if you were to answer somewhat critical questions, which I do not expect you to do.

I have no problem addressing "critical" question. Our organisation is by no means perfect and open to criticism. In fact, every member is encouraged to comment on policy issues and pass his or her concern on to the Council. The final decision on all issues however rests with the Elders.

Are they perhaps in some way opening up their doors and windows for the public, albeit to a lesser extent? Or were their previously supposed websites authentic, so this is nothing new?

Yes, the previous website (I only know of one forum) was authentic and was meant to attract interested parties that may qualify for a prospective membership. However, currently there is no recruiting done except by personal invitation of one of the Elders.

Thank you for responding. By "critical" questions I meant more like what you would know about the Aset Ka or Red Order of Seth for instance, seeing as that would probably be quite critical indeed and most of our interests here besides many other things of how your group operates, not upon current activites you are involved in but maybe overall internal organization or even occult methods but described in a less precise way? Those are just some things I can think of, not very much, although probably heavy questions in and of themselves I am sure, at least to an extent - particularly regarding the AK and ROS. For instance, what do you know about their supposed hostilities towards one another playing out in the field of history and today? I'm not sure if these are safe questions to ask though, as they are both groups known for their secrecy and approaching it could be dangerous unless I'm mistaken (but as we all know, to a huge extent, I probably am not, in regards to that specific point) and just a bit too paranoid, haha... Or, what could you say about the latter question to put it into a right perspective perhaps upon comparison with the background of what we, or other people, tend to think or speculate about it, whether factually correct or out of line with the actual reality behind it? This is some interesting question and questions I have in my mind, at the moment at least.

I don't expect you to be all knowing about the Order of Aset Ka and Red Order of Seth, however, because they might often be left to their own devices and approaching them in such deep ways might be difficult indeed where they might conceal themselves very well and prove extremely dangerous, I reckon... But skimming the surface of what you know at least to begin with and are allowed to share?

Oh, and also, are you aware of other known vampiric orders in some similar fashion or resemblance in quality to the AK or ROS? What other vampiric orders might you be studying? I've long been contemplating upon there perhaps existing some order that no one knows about and is even more secretive than the AK or ROS, but that's just my theory and vivid imagination at play so far.

Thanks, and cheers!

Well, I will try to the best of my abilities to answer some of your questions. Let's start with how our group operates. Basically, we are divided into small chapters that work together. A lot of the time we work as individual "field agents", mainly because our membership is pretty much scattered around the globe. For example, I am the only Watcher in my home country that I am aware of, so I work independently a lot of the time. If I discover a phenomenon that warrants investigation, I am authorised to look into it myself, providing of course I provide a report to the Council.

I want to add that this isn't always as exciting as it sounds. A lot of it is what you would consider "office work", skimming through occult tomes and analysing old manuscripts we have in our archives. For example, I have worked extensively on an analysis of John Dee's Enochian Magick.

As for occult methods we use, those are very varied and depend on the knowlege and capabilities of the individual Watchers. We are not only passive, we also work to neutralise effects of black magic rituals.

As for your questions on the Aset Ka and the Red Order of Seth, I am honestly not sure how much hostility really exists between them. Both Orders pursue different goals and tend to ignore each other a lot. You could perhaps compare this to a kind of "peaceful co-existence".

The AK, as far as I am aware, mainly pursues its own affairs and is not very much interested in interferring with the dealings of the "mundane" world. Why the decided to publish the Asetian Bible and other writings a few years ago, however, remains a mystery.

As for the Red Order of Seth, a lot has been said about it in this forum and I can only say that a lot of the information given here is very solid and factual. Basically, the Watchers consider the ROS as dangerous because the seek to influence politics and religious institutions into setting up a kind of New World Order with themselves as shadow government. I do not know so much about their recent activities, but one example I can tell you is that they were very much behind the infamous P2 Lodge that attempted to infiltrate the Catholic Church some years ago.

As for other vampire orders, I do know that some others exist (often referring to themselves as covens). More often or not, these are just small groups of vampires that band together for common purposes. One older Order that I am aware of calls itself the "Children of Judas" and claims a mystical descent from Judas Iscariot, based on the legend that Judas was cursed to become a vampire for betraying Christ.

Generally, the Council classifies vampires into different categories based on research and analysis of their behaviour and activities, but that is probably a topic for a different post. This one has become longer than I intended anyway

As an afterthought, I just want to add that the Watchers for the most part do not condone vampirc activites. Especially those like myself that come from a Christian Esoteric background regard the practice of vampirism (psychic or blood-sucking) as unethical. In the case of "feral vampires" it can even sometimes become necessary not only to investigate but to intervene - but that is a topic I am not permitted to disclose much about.

@Jonathan: I'd be interested to know in which town the Watcher Group you have contact with in the US is located, is it New Orleans?

PS Please forgive the occasional spelling errors. While my English is quite fluent, it is not my native tongue.

Interesting. Concerning the ROS it seems only to affirm my suspicions.

However, are you aware of the Order of Aset Ka being banned for alleged (?) "cult-like activity", in certain countries like France? A friend of mine mentioned how he had looked up the Order after me telling him about it and found this article on some site. When asked for the link later, he said that he could not find and it was indeed a longer time ago he read it. That might not be a very "juicy" question, in that sense, but might be interesting anyhow, if you might know about it.

It does make me curious, though, about your analysis and research of different vampires' behaviours and activities and classifying them accordingly. How does that work?

However, apart from that, I think I will let other members post their questions forth following as there are probably others who want to know by raising legitimate questions so I don't occupy all space, hehe...

Thank you for your elaborate reply nevertheless.

Lightseeker, I have friends in the lodges from Washington and NYC, which tend to be more politically inclined. I’m not aware of a chapter in New Orleans to be honest but I can probably inquiry about it if needed.

MysticLightShinethForth, I very much doubt that the Aset Ka is banned in any European country as their influence is strongest there. I know of a handful of Asetianist initiates from France and never heard from such a ban.

I would say so as well. Would seem strange if they were banned in any way, shape or form. Just the uncertain information I heard from my friend, although it could just have been a potential misread, or something, of whatever it might have been.

MysticLightShinethForth wrote: However, are you aware of the Order of Aset Ka being banned for alleged (?) "cult-like activity", in certain countries like France?

I am not directly aware of the fact. I also think it would be difficult to ban an organisation such as the Aset Ka that acts secretly and doesn't have a "membership list". However, it wouldn't suprise me if the Asetian literature found its way into some anti-cult reports in France. France passed some "anti-cult laws" about one or two decades ago that label almost every alternative or occult group as a "cult" or "sect" and especially seek to protect youngster from what the French government viewes as "dangerous influences".

It does make me curious, though, about your analysis and research of different vampires' behaviours and activities and classifying them accordingly. How does that work?

Well, that question needs some elaboration. We don't only classify vampires but all kinds of supernatural and/or psychic entities. As for vampires, two main types can be distinguished, mortal and immortal.

"Mortal" means that the vampire in question carries the vampirc essence and show vampiric traits, but is going to grow old and die - in most cases then reborn again with the same vampiric essence as described in the Asetian writings.

"Immortal" means that the vampire is just that, "immortal", the way vampires exist in traditional lore. Such vampires are rare, they have often received their transformation directly from the heads or founders of the old Orders or Houses.

Both types of vampires need to feed, either on psychic energy or by feeding on blood. That leads to another classification, namely "psychic vampires" or "sanguinarian vampires" (from the latin word for "blood").

A special and very dangerous category are what we call "feral vampires". These are for the most part people who have made a pact with dark forces in their lifetime and are re-surrected to a kind of "undead existence" after their demise. These vampires often lack the faculty of reason and are extremely predatory in nature. The most recent famous example of a feral vampire would be the Highgate Vampire in the 1970s. Such vampires need to be tracked down and exorcised because they pose a great threat to humans.

So summing up, you can put vampires into the categories (1) mortal or immortal (2) psychic or sanguinarian (although some are both) and (3) living or "undead".

Jonathan wrote:Lightseeker, I have friends in the lodges from Washington and NYC, which tend to be more politically inclined.

Hmh, very interesting. I must admit that I am not aware of those lodges, but then again, I hardly have any contact or anything to do with the US. And what exactly do you mean by "politically inclined"?

Lightseeker wrote:

Jonathan wrote:Lightseeker, I have friends in the lodges from Washington and NYC, which tend to be more politically inclined.

Hmh, very interesting. I must admit that I am not aware of those lodges, but then again, I hardly have any contact or anything to do with the US. And what exactly do you mean by "politically inclined"?

I mean they have ties to political structures within the US and are involved in political activity.

Also, I for one disagree with the vampire classifications described above but that's not a subject for this discussion.

Jonathan wrote: Also, I for one disagree with the vampire classifications described above but that's not a subject for this discussion.

Well, obviously every kind of classification has its flaws and weaknesses, but we have found the above definitions as practical when researching vampire activities. Of course, one could argue about the difference between feral vampires and immortal ones. I honestly am not sure if an immortal has a kind of "death experience" too when he turns because I myself have not seen any reliable reports about the transformation process per se. But as I said, I do not have access to all the files.

However, I do wish to emphasize that immortal vampires definitely exist and have been documented. I am saying this because there is a lot of doubt about that even amongst people who consider themselves part of the vampire community.

And for me personally, political activites hold little interest. But that may be different in chapters that deal mainly or exclusively with the ROS and its machinations.

I can't say I exactly trust the theories of vampires immortal in body. Though it has been discussed before so I will keep it to that place.

Rhea Kaye wrote:I can't say I exactly trust the theories of vampires immortal in body. Though it has been discussed before so I will keep it to that place.

Well, there is documented evidence of their existence, that much I can say for certain. I will just add this: There are ways to renew the body by absorbing what used to be called "elan vital" or life-force. However, at least on the vampiric path this involved draining this life-force from other living beings. That is the main reason why I said in one of my earlier posts that I (and the majority of other Watchers I know, especially those from a Christian background) regard vampirism as un-ethical.

You and A.Nightside should team up together. She will love you and your ideas. lol.

Maxx wrote:You and A.Nightside should team up together.  She will love you and your ideas.  lol.

Why is that? And it seems to me that I detect a certain cynicism in your reply. I read some of your other posts, so let me state right now that I'm not here to pick a fight with anyone

Also, these aren't just "my ideas" but those of the Watcher Group I belong to - although I am aware that some will doubt this fact.

What do you know about the numbers of the Aset Ka or Red Order of Seth? Do the ROS have a greater number and horde than the Aset Ka as many have speculated here? If it is not too sensitive information to release for the public to see, however... of which I'm not sure, but from your point of view?

Also, another interesting thought was brought up in another thread, whether the ROS have certain otherkin species within their ranks and Order like the Asetians who have the Keepers, or Anubians, as they are called - for instance?

If I was trying to start friction, I would state it flat out.
If there is nothing wrong with your group or yourself, why start out being defensive about it in the first place? Sounds strange to me but I certainly have questions that I never even mention. lol. That is cause I am such a nice guy....

MysticLightShinethForth wrote:What do you know about the numbers of the Aset Ka or Red Order of Seth? Do the ROS have a greater number and horde than the Aset Ka as many have speculated here?

First off, I do not know the total number of either the Aset Ka or the ROS in total, because there are a lot of them that work and stay totally in the shadows and are therefore "off the radar" as far as the Watchers' Council is concerned. We do have records of identified members of both orders, so it would be possible to tell you the number of AK or ROS we know about. However, I will not do this because I am quite certain that both Asetians and Setians also frequently read this forum, so disclosing such numbers here would place the Watcher Group at a tactical disadvantage.

What I can say however is that especially the ROS has vast numbers of "minions", meaning humans that consciously or unconsciously advance the Setian goals. These are not members of the ROS but influence politics, religion and culture in accordance with the Setian NWO agenda.

Also, another interesting thought was brought up in another thread, whether the ROS have certain otherkin species within their ranks and Order like the Asetians who have the Keepers, or Anubians, as they are called - for instance?

I honestly know too little details to be able to answer this question. Even the Keepers remain very mysterious to us and are little researched compared to the Asetians themselves. What I do know is that the ROS sometimes "employs" feral vampires (and purposefully creates them through use of black magic). Given the fact that these vampires are basically human shells devoid of a soul, animated by powerful black magic, you could probably consider them a sort of otherkin.

There are also rumors that lycanthrophy is practiced extensively within the ritual framework of the ROS. But if these lycanthrophes are a separate species or only ritually transformed Setians I do not know. Certainly they are not otherkin in the sense of being "soulless".

Maxx wrote:If I was trying to start friction, I would state it flat out.
If there is nothing wrong with your group or yourself, why start out being defensive about it in the first place?

I'm not trying to be defensive, I just read some of your posts in other threads and know that you sometimes enjoy starting a bit of friction And I just mentioned my status as a Watcher because I am aware that there are a lot of trolls on this forum too that claim to be vampires, AK members etc., so I would understand if you or others are sceptical about me being what I say I am. Basically, if what I write makes sense to you, fine. If it doesn't, it's fine as well, I'm not here looking for approval or recognition....

And like I mentioned previously, I am open to criticism and/or sceptical questions as well, as long as they are put forward in an atmosphere of goodwill and mutual respect.

Interesting.

What do you know about Lycanthropy or its supposed "practice" overall though? This particularly concerns and frightens me who considers himself an Asetianist but with Lycanthropic nature or identification in some sense; hopefully all Lycanthropes (not shape-shifters in the exaggerated sense of fully transforming into a wolf-like creature physically but more mental, psychological and behavioural) do not side with the Sethians. It's an inner beast that rests under a delicate framework of mind and psyche.

Lightseeker, there are many of your ideas that I don't agree with but it was interesting to read what you have to say nonetheless.