Vampire Watchers

Lightseeker wrote: I'm not here looking for approval or recognition....

Then why are you here???

Lightseeker wrote: However, I will not do this because I am quite certain that both Asetians and Setians also frequently read this forum, so disclosing such numbers here would place the Watcher Group at a tactical disadvantage.

lol.  Why would they read this location?   There is no information put here that would be knowledge they would not have, know about, or even need.  This forum no longer has close to any unknown or even "breaking news" up to the minute, that is released.  That just does not ring like a bell.  No Aset Ka or ROS member is dashing through this site.

After vanishing for a lengthy time and coming back saying you have been initiated into a secret organization but you cannot give prime information out to anyone but would be open to questions, lol.  What would anyone with half a mind think this display is all about?  Facts?  Facts?  Facts?   Appearance and perception play very big here.  Looking for attention????   Naw.  Couldn't be possible.

Even some of your classifications add up to common ole delusional vampire theories projected by the VCN crowd.  And Christian .....Vampire????   Both of those sound more than fake.

My own theory is that you have bought a ticket on the Circus Clown Train and are still riding.....
 
Remember my saying.....  If you hear...."Mommy loves you sooooo Much......"...   You better start looking for proof you have been adopted and you do not have all the info....

Lightseeker, just ignore Maxx and continue the discussion; he's just a jester (no offense Maxx, haha), lol... Even though some of what you say might sound questionable, so one should be healthily skeptical towards it, it is still interesting nonetheless and I don't believe you're wrong on everything.

Oh no, wait, what did I say? I'm going to stir up the big jester from sleep again and he's going to run rampant and this turn out into a horror movie in the style of those with monster clowns. I must not offend the big jester or else I am in trouble and he is going to assert himself again on full bricks... No, what have I done! This is going to end up ugly and the whole thread probably be destroyed like with many others.

Excuse the excess of emojis.

I meant every word. The thing to do is prove I am wrong. Otherwise, you ride the clown train as well. lol.

MysticLightShinethForth wrote:Interesting.

What do you know about Lycanthropy or its supposed "practice" overall though?

I just know that a lot of Lycanthrops are attracted to the Setian ideas of indulgence, power etc. That does not mean that all lycanthrops are Setian. As in most cases, it is up to the individual. I do know however that the "beast within" can be quite difficult to control, so I would advise caution when using transformation rituals. But you're probably aware of this anyway.

Rhea Kaye wrote:Lightseeker, there are many of your ideas that I don't agree with but it was interesting to read what you have to say nonetheless.

I'd be interested in your opinion and which ideas you do not agree with?

Sure, Lightseeker. 
Well, I do not exactly agree that there are beings immortal in body. I think that everything created on this plane must meet its end eventually. I keep the map of subtle planes in my mind in this instance, the Pyramid discussed in the Asetian writings. You have the physical at the base which corresponds to elemental earth, followed by the inner plane next, corresponding to the air element. Next is the astral, corresponding to water, and at the apex is ethereal, followed by the element fire. The ethereal is actually harder to access, being the location where Akashic Records are stored. There is also mention of that plane being home of the gods and the seat of immortality, being above the abyss and corresponding heavily to the kabbalah. There is very much a superior plane to earth, which is actually regarded as an inferior element that shouldn't be outright discarded but instead conquered. This is why I tend to discard the whole physical immortality element. The Book of Orion delves a lot into some concepts that might fit into what I'm talking about. 

I also feel that it is very hard to understand concepts of vampirism while embracing Christianity, just because of how limiting it is. Though each person has their own ideals and many do regard some vampiric techniques as unethical, regardless of what religion they follow. 

Just a few examples. 

I am also not affiliated with this group so I don't know how they operate or whether or not you're actually in the real one. But, what I do appreciate is that you can still have level discussion while people disagree with you.

Sorry, I should actually correct myself on that sentence regarding the land of the gods, I definitely misspoke there. That would actually be the inaccessible Divine Plane, being the area above the top of the pyramid. But I think that's probably a whole different topic.

Maxx wrote:
lol.  Why would they read this location?

The monitor all forums with topics concerning them on a routine basis. Surely you don't doubt that they have the resources to do so? I can't say for sure how often they drop by here, but be assured they are aware of this forum.

After vanishing for a lengthy time and coming back saying you have been initiated into a secret organization but you cannot give prime information out to anyone but would be open to questions, lol.  What would anyone with half a mind think this display is all about?  

A legitimate questions, and I thank you for bringing it up. It shows that you have a sharp mind, I was actually suprised noone else thought of asking this yet. Anyway, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the answer is much simpler than you might suspect: When I first registered on this forum some time ago, I did so mainly to inquire about the Watcher Group, finding their own website no longer active. Unfortunately, I did not find a lot of factual information on the Group here, so I went on to search elsewhere - and believe me, it was a long and somewhat exhausting quest finding them.

Now that I have been initiated, I came back because I thought people would appreciate the opportunity to talk with an actual member that can relate experiences first-hand. So basically I came back here because I would have appreciated finding someone like myself here three or four years ago  

Even some of your classifications add up to common ole delusional vampire theories projected by the VCN crowd.  And Christian .....Vampire????   Both of those sound more than fake.

Yes, I do maintain that vampires in the traditional "undead" sense also exist, and I maintain that immortal vampires exist today. There is a plethora of evidence dating back centuries to prove both of these points. In former centuries, even academic tracts were written by recognised scholars of the day. I will just name Antoine-Augustine Calmet and his "Dissertations sur les apparitions des anges, des démons et des esprits, et sur les revenants et vampires de Hongrie, de Bohême, de Moravie et de Silésie" (1746).

And yes, I myself am a Christian and I consider myself a RHP practioner. A lot of other Watchers I know are also Christians, some are even member of the clergy. However, there are also Wiccans and all kinds of other faiths. But I think I do speak for the organisation as a whole if I say that our Council has ethical problems with quite a few aspects of vampirism. That is the reason why we rarely directly approach or interferre with the work of the orders and covens. None of us that I know of would have the slightest interest in receiving the Dark Gift - although we do of course profit from the Asetians' vast occult knowledge.

And btw, I've always enjoyed circuses and I especially like the clowns So if actually believing in the factual existence of "traditional" vampires and vampiric entities - based on a host of evidence and personal experiences as well as documented cases of our Group - makes me a circus loony, then so be it.

Rhea Kaye wrote:Sure, Lightseeker. 
Well, I do not exactly agree that there are beings immortal in body. I think that everything created on this plane must meet its end eventually. I keep the map of subtle planes in my mind in this instance, the Pyramid discussed in the Asetian writings.

I honestly do not think that the two concepts contradict each other. I believe that the choice is up to the individual. Once a vampire reaches a certain advanced stage of unfoldment and has mastered the vampiric techniques to the fullest, he can make the choice to transition to the higher planes or to remain here on earth. However, this remaining here on earth means that the corporeal form needs to be sustained by draining the life-energy of others. In most cases, the vampire in question will have already lead many lifes and perfected the techniques involved before he reaches the threshold of bodily immortality, except maybe in cases where he has received the Dark Gift directly from one of the "Ancients".

I also feel that it is very hard to understand concepts of vampirism while embracing Christianity, just because of how limiting it is.

Yes, I suppose you could say it is limiting, but I willingly accept these limitations because I believe that when it comes to spiritual development, the ends do not justify the means. And as I mentioned before, we do not only study vampirism, but all sorts of psychic and supernatural phenomenon. Like all researchers, we study things simply because they exist - although I admit that I personally am always  somewhat happy if I can throw a small cog in the Setian machinery and its black magical endeavors.  

What is "black magick" to you? 
I ask because it seems that everyone has a different definition on what it entails.

Rhea Kaye wrote:What is "black magick" to you? 
I ask because it seems that everyone has a different definition on what it entails.

We define black magick - this is a direct quote from our documents - "as every magickal act that involves the e- or in-vocation of demonic or chaotic forces and/or is intended to harm others (such as a curse) or gain power over them by disregarding ther free will."

It can sometimes be hard to define if a particular magickal ritual is "black" or not. For example, I would regard the (conscious) creation of a Tulpa or other thoughtforms as "neutral", it depends on what you use the created entity for and what kind of energy you enfuse it with. However, summoning a demon would be considered black magick even if the demon can be controlled and is used for a seemingly "just" goal.

Your commentary sounds good on the overall section, but going deeper and based on my research and my past experiences with exorcism all over the US and now other parts of the world, as well as my connection to Christian Church, I certainly disagree with your conclusions on that.  

How can one advocate for a Jesus as written in the Bible when there is no actual and real historical record of him other than King Issu Manu who was an entirely different story, that caused riots wanting to become ruler of Rome. There is no account of this, other than proven counterfeit writings by Church writers. So, in this case, no one could be a Christian knowing how false writing has created nothing but a cult worldwide.  If your outfit was such a great research organization, you would not be able to even slightly touch on that topic above as connected to Christian belief and keep a straight face.  That alone would cause me to be suspect of the rest of your stated info.

Your comments on magic and demons, etc. I also disagree based on my past and present involvement.  Too much of your stated facts do not align with my first hand (not library revelations) knowledge.

So I have to question your entire presentation here.  

But you and A. Nightside would definitely match up well.  lol.  Lots of info but does not exactly align with reality.

And yes, I remember you being here and the whole topic of your search that was stated here.

Lightseeker, I agree Lycanthropes can possibly be attracted to ideas of power as there might be a burning sense of ferocious power in their hearts from the wild beast-like instincts they possess whilst also in a human body. However, in my point of view this is a fierce aspect and force of Nature that also respects and honors Her order of things as archetypically rightful and fierce guardians of the same. They may rise like flaming dragons or wild chimerical beasts devouring all traces of injustice as voices in defence of nature; a suitable exercise of their force. Those are just my own thoughts, however. I can understand how Lycanthropes might align with the Sethian ideals of power in a sense, and to an extent, but I also believe Sethian ideals of power might promulgate themselves upon the expense of nature so there is a clear contradiction in my point of view. For instance the New World Order you are bringing up apparently do not concern themselves at all with Mother Earth or with nature but seek expanse at the cost of everything else to fulfill their devious plans. Maybe those are long-term goals and they would only sacrifice something like the planet or its environment temporarily where ends justify the means in order to reach their goals but I do not believe in such procedure at all. However, it is something that I have thought about in trying to put myself behind their reasoning to gain a better insight and understanding of their mentality, neutrally and objectively impartial, but not to do it myself.

That said, though, I do not believe that Lycanthropes would seek power from the derivative position of an inferiority complex as they naturally may tend to feel quite superior to humans and defiant in their outlook to what they regard as unnatural, weak and often inferior creatures which often seek to impose their stagnant, ridiculous and silly worldviews upon everything else but not always. Not all humans do this though. Many humans are respectable creatures but that is far from all. I also believe humans can rise to great heights and master many arts, but it is all a matter of individuality as with everything else concerning both vampires, otherkin and humans. Some humans might beat all vampires and werewolves combined, to speak in a bit of an exaggerated and illustrative way to make my point. I might just speak very generally, brief and abstract here but it is indeed up to the individual to determine their level of growth by persistent self-development. Maybe the sad thing is just that most humans neglect this practice in this day and age of materialistic paradigms.
However, also with this said, I do not mean to subtly infer that I'm better than anybody else or at all think in that way to establish a superiority complex and appear great by belittling others but just speaking generally upon what I think most Lycanthropes might feel like as described above. It might just be a reflex of their physical strength and ferocious power but it can also lead to the worst of self-delusions and delusions of grandeur, I believe, if allowed to foster in thought and left unchecked without balance and humility in proper perspective upon oneself and their place in the world. In any case humility and proper self-perspective is most important, or else self-importance and/or arrogance signals a downfall that may be difficult to get up from and may take years. I do recognize I have infinite levels above me which keeps me in check, both from humans, vampires and otherkin (as well as other beings) presumably, but also levels below me that I have left behind, yet I do not regard them as lesser or see them from such a point of view but only as those that might be helped upward without any other thought. In the deepest Essence of our Being we are all equal as sparks of the One Infinite Flame but it is up to our own self-efforts to unfold its nature.

Lol, I realize how "cringe worthy" some of that sounded, but I'm merely speaking from a historical past of what I've experienced within myself on those extremities. Now, however, my outlook is entirerly shifted and I don't believe myself to be mighty and superior to all humans anymore. Haha.

Also, note that humans are not unnatural creatures. This is merely what I used to think, maybe due to the plastic, artifical and false society we live in.

Maxx wrote:Your commentary sounds good on the overall section, but going deeper and based on my research and my past experiences with exorcism all over the US and now other parts of the world, as well as my connection to Christian Church, I certainly disagree with your conclusions on that.

I have already participated in quite a few exorcism rituals, so I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on that. Would you care to elaborate a bit? 

How can one advocate for a Jesus as written in the Bible when there is no actual and real historical record of him

Well, if there is historical proof or not is open to debate. At least some of the Pauline letters in the Bible have been proven to be very old, the same is true for the Gospel of St. Mark. Also, one of the roots our Watcher Group traces its origins back to is the Essene Brotherhood on Mt. Carmel. We have in our archives quite a few Essene documents that shed more light on Jesus' life and ministry.

However, as with all religion and spirituality, in the end it is a question of belief. Being a Christian doesn't necessarily entail "proof" of the historicity of the Biblical records. I am sure you are aware of the fact that a lot of occurrences in Jesus' life are of a highly symbolical and archetypcial nature - one only needs to look at the parallels between Jesus and Osiris. Meaning, without going into more detail, Christianity actually pre-dates Jesus

Your comments on magic and demons, etc. I also disagree based on my past and present involvement.  Too much of your stated facts do not align with my first hand (not library revelations) knowledge.

I have quite a bit of experience with the occult and the practice of magick too. In fact, most Watchers have been either students of magickal traditions or members of occult orders before they join our organisation. Such knowledge is necessary not only to understand the texts we study, but also to counteract the influence of malevolent forces and protect ourselves from black-magickal attacks (which unfortunately occur all to often). I myself fell victim to such an attack a few years ago and was ill for two months.

I mentioned in an earlier post that I willingly accept and embrace the "limitations" of Christianity. I do this because I have first-hand practical experience of black-magick and would prefer to work within a "safe" ethical and spiritual framework. However, I want to emphasize again that NOT all Watchers are Christians, we are an international organisation not limited to the sphere of one religious body. We only expect our members to adhere to certain ethical and spiritual standards and to refrain from using black magick according to our definition.

MysticLightShinethForth wrote:Lol, I realize how "cringe worthy" some of that sounded, but I'm merely speaking from a historical past of what I've experienced within myself on those extremities. Now, however, my outlook is entirerly shifted and I don't believe myself to be mighty and superior to all humans anymore. Haha.

Also, note that humans are not unnatural creatures. This is merely what I used to think, maybe due to the plastic, artifical and false society we live in.

No, not at all, I enjoyed reading your text, it was very poetic And of course you are right about what you say about not all lycanthrophes aligning themselves with Sethian ideals - or even with the LHP in general. It depends on the self-discipline of the individual and his ability to control the beast within. However, in my experience, lycanthrophy is a lot about indulging passions and power. I don't know if you are familiar with Church of Satan founder Anton LaVey's essay on Lycanthrophy? If not, you might want to read it, it will illustrate some of my points.

About superiority: I hold that all beings are equal because they were created by the same Divine Source. However, some individuals could be considered "superior" to others in a sense that they have progressed further in knowledge or spiritual development. That was what I meant when I tried to explain about the existence of immortal vampires. However, more knowledge does not necessarily entail higher ethics. It's all about how you decide to USE the knowledge you have acquired.

That is the reason why all Watchers are expected to adhere to a quite strict ethical code. Using occult forces in a way that harms others for personal gain is grounds for expulsion from the Order.

Well, I am happy to admit that I found your writing interesting enough to go back and read it over a second time.  No one else here has had writings posted here in a very long time that even came close to catching my interest like that.  Just copying sentences from books and putting it out there giving the perception that it is their own mind is rather non-attention getting and any blind person can see their technique.  So, I salute your time spent in answering the questions put forth to you in an attempt to try to serve honestly........but.  I am not one to believe everything I read given out to me as most here do.

I can happily say that you have inserted more into a conversation than any I have had in a very long time.  Even tho I do not accept your facts as firmly establishing a precedent in the case of the documents mentioned because they are "old."  Also, the fact they come from the Essenes.  The Nag Hammadi texts were factual to a point and are responsible for the Gnostics being in opposition to the Dead Sea Scroll bunch.  But neither specifically designates the story of Jesus as told from the view as given by the church.  Your info there is a misrepresentation either by you being given slanted info to prove the case or just completely your misunderstanding of it.  And yes, I agree the teachings are much older than the inclusion of the Jesus character.  Isaiah is proof of that.  In his time his writings show that disagreement between the Gnostics and the Essences had a good reason.  lol.  Boils down to--- were the specific events illustrated in the writings done in physical events, or were they done in entirely spiritual ways....because in some cases it is written that some of these people really saw things while others there in the same place could not see them..lol.  Isaiah was the central factor to start all that Essenes riot with the Gnostics.  Jews, as well as the Higher teachers, know this stuff does not line up with how their religion is taught.  Stories of both "HOLY" writings of both Christians and Jews can be found by studying Ancient lives of the Pharaohs to find the actual names given in the Bible and Torah (which cannot be found in historical records and never existed) are actually lives that can be found from Egypt's past.  So all of the Christian and Jew religions are really a carryover from Egypt.  (Well, maybe looking closer regarding eating the Host and drinking the blood might be considered more vampire in one and more cannibalistic in the other)  But Egypt might be a little far from that.

Based on what I see, I can agree on your concept that Christianity is nothing but an extension of the Egyptian religion, as I have stated here before.  The character Jesus is nothing more than an egregore as it is used in the Bible writings if given a word for word creation.  lol.  But there was an individual from actual history that was the figure that Jesus was used as somewhat of an actual example.  There is historical evidence but not close to what the Church uses.

To address the writings of the Pauline letters as well as Mark.  The writer of those letters was actually responsible for creating one of the two churches mentioned in the Bible.  There are two churches there.  One is the Church of Paul and the other is the Church of Jesus which was never real in the first place.  lol.  Josephus Flavius wrote all of that material to kiss the rear of the Emperor and at his direction.  So just because the docs are older than most does not give it credence.  Eusebius was the greatest Christian writer recognized as being historical but that clown was not even considered credible by his own contemporaries.  Changing the biography of Constantine four times to make all kinds of changes over many years tells everyone the guy could not tell the truth if his life depended on it.  And this creep is the biggest historian the church has to prove Jesus.  lol.

As far as exorcism, as I have mentioned here before, I have compared methods used with Malaki Martin in the past.  He was the Churches head exorcist of the Vatican at the time.  He and I were on some radio shows in the past.  We agreed on most everything except where we do not line up with the issue is that he might spend 10 days on an exorcism....I say hell no.  About a minute for me as I do not need to put up with all that silly display. I do not even need to be in front of them or even in the same building or same country.   Malaki was one of the advisors to the movie "The Exorcist" so that may be where it was portrayed that it occurred over many different time frames.  

In the wording, you use above you state "ritual".   I have no need for any ritual.  Either in exorcism or in magical operation.   I can have discussions without all that display of formal fanfare.

light or dark magic is all one.  No dif.  All depends on how one wants to use it. Angelic or so-called Demonic beings are all created for functions and even are used in the same operations if wanted to do that.   One needs to know and understand balance in all things.  So like just about everyone else dividing into two different sections like light and dark, good and evil, etc. which is hogwash, I completely disagree with your statements.  

Admitingly, I see you have a better description of most explanations I have seen, but I still question your authenticity and that you still view these things operating like that.  If one goes deeper into what is actually taking place, those little things would change in appearance to you if you were really in the middle of it.  But I do not believe much of anything I am told unless I experience it myself.  ha.

Maxx wrote:Well, I am happy to admit that I found your writing interesting enough to go back and read it over a second time.  No one else here has had writings posted here in a very long time that even came close to catching my interest like that.

Thank you for those kind words. And honestly, I'd be somewhat disappointed if someone as knowledgeable as yourself would just accept everything I say at face value.

 But neither specifically designates the story of Jesus as told from the view as given by the church.  Your info there is a misrepresentation either by you being given slanted info to prove the case or just completely your misunderstanding of it.

As I said, in the end it is a matter of faith and belief. I only wanted to state two facts, namely: (1) there are documents to support the idea that Jesus actually experienced the ordeal of crucifixion and had the power to resurrect, and (2) the quesion of this historicity is much less important than the initatory truth his life and passio contain. 

  (Well, maybe looking closer regarding eating the Host and drinking the blood might be considered more vampire in one and more cannibalistic in the other)

A very interesting fact, and certainly one which I as a Catholic who believes in and has experienced the reality of transsubstantiation have considered. In my opinion it is based on the same principle that blood is the carrier of life-energy. Even the ancient Hebrews and Egyptians emphasized the fact that blood is life and gives life. About your other views concerning Eusebius etc., I could argue about that, but I don't really want to. Not because I disrespect your opinion in any way, but because I don't want to turn this into a Christian apologetic thread

As far as exorcism, as I have mentioned here before, I have compared methods used with Malaki Martin in the past.  He was the Churches head exorcist of the Vatican at the time.  He and I were on some radio shows in the past.

I am aware of the works of Malaki Martin, he is certainly one of the major demonologists and excorcists of our time - although I don't necessarily agree with all his opinions. I especially have problems with the fact that he (and his somewhat successor Gabriele Amorth) don't seem to distinguish at all between "white" and "black" magick, condemming any kind of magick outright - thereby ignoring the fact that the sacraments are in themselves rituals of High Magick.

In the wording, you use above you state "ritual".   I have no need for any ritual.  Either in exorcism or in magical operation.   I can have discussions without all that display of formal fanfare.

If that is so, then I congratulate you. I honestly admit that I have not reached such a level. I need to employ rituals and symbols in my work.

light or dark magic is all one.  No dif.  All depends on how one wants to use it. Angelic or so-called Demonic beings are all created for functions and even are used in the same operations if wanted to do that.   One needs to know and understand balance in all things.

I understand your point and I agree with the notion of balance. We as Watchers research both what you could consider the LHP traditions as well as the RHP traditions, we recognise that a state of balance will exist as long as this creation cycle lasts. Light is meaningless without shadow, and shadow cannot be cast without light. However, there are terrible dangers involved when working with Demonic or Qliphothic forces, and most organisations that do so - such as the various covens and groups connected to the ROS - do so purely for personal gain without any consideration for others.

The Watcher Group mainly chronicles and researches, but we do (and other organisations too) step in to ensure that the "dark side" does not gain the upper hand, thereby upsetting the balance. In some other post (not by me) it has been mentioned that the Watchers are not only researchers, but also a kind of "line of defense" for humanity. That is essentially correct, although I am not permitted to elaborate on that much more.

But I do not believe much of anything I am told unless I experience it myself.

As is the right and also the duty of all beings with free will. For this, you have my deepest respect. One of the Watcher Council's "slogans", so to speak, is: "When you know, you know. Before you know, you don't know". That basically conveys the same idea.

thanks. 30.

I suspect you purposely stated you were Catholic to reveal subtlely that not all Catholics are ROS. ha.

Maxx wrote:I suspect you purposely stated you were Catholic to reveal subtlely that not all Catholics are ROS.  ha.

Except we must also consider those Catholics and others of different faiths who are actually working for the ROS without even knowing.

True, Nightshade.  But without any intuitive ability on their part, what suggestion would you give them.   I have found there is no deliverance from stupidity.

That actually is a section from my views that if one found there actually was no physical existence of the central figure of Christianity, then why be there?  Other than they like the pomp and circumstance (which I had a lady tell me that one time as the reason she and her husband joined the Episcopal church. lol.)