Lycans and Vampires?

Also, bear in mind that the term 'Lycan' was popularised by the film Underworld. It was used as an abbreviation for the term lycanthropy, which is classified in clinical terms as a psychiatric syndrome, usually linked with schizophrenia, whereby the individual believes they are an animal of prey, and assume behaviourial traits which reflect this.
Therianthropy, which is similar to Lycanthropy, is another term for individuals which shift mentally rather than 'physically'/'outwardly'.
It is important to remember that modern terminology often shrouds the truth behind the origins of true otherkin.

I am not jumping in to say I believe or disbelieve any of this but I would have a question for the group. Why is it, always, that I hear or find accounts of this type of being and they are always in the teen years or early 20's. Does anyone have any knowledge of packs or groups in the ages of 30's to 50's living within this group, or do they all expire before the age of 21?

I never hear of older members of this group. Only young teens and this tends to take any reliability away from whatever info one can find regarding this subject.

From what I can tell it's a result of the older ones being more... self-contained. The teens of this age are exceptionally internet oriented and talk about everything there. The older folk are less likely to do so, and the likelihood of an aged Lycan on the internet is even less if there are only a small number of them. It can be said however that it is likely the majority of self-proclaimed Lycans are not so.

Daniel,
Is this info from you, or did you get these statements from some source? As far as older individuals on the net....those of the ages of 30-40, I find are almost as computer literate as the younger ones except for the games, which are basically for the young. These ages have been working in the professional areas for some time with computers. No time for gamers but they spend time getting the work done they need to do to earn a living.

Sorry, I meant to add the note. It's just speculation from me based on the kind of personality I would expect a Lycan to have. It would just seem to me that they wouldn't like chat rooms and forums for the immaturity of them, and spend more time in natural settings with older pleasures. I could be entirely wrong, it's just my personal feelings on the matter.

Understood.

There is really no connection between vampires and "lycans" (shapeshifter, or even therianthrope is a more accurate term in my book, since lycanthrope defines only someone who has a wolf theriotype, e.g. can shapeshift only into a wolf, or use only energy of that specific type of animal). I am a natural shapeshifter, but am also a vampire, so the "conflict" is non-existant outside of the movies and stories. I suggest that the more experienced of you (if you believe in the connection or conflict between vampire and lycanthrope) verify this on the astral plane as well. you will see that there is no strong energy correspondance between the two.
-A therian is a person who has natural shapeshifting ability and the essence of a specific animal spirit/s amalgamated into their own Spirit. So, a vampire can also be this person, as one can gain this trait through various incarnations.

-As for shapeshifters; anyone with an ability to energetically shapeshift is called a shapeshifter. to be this they do not need to be a therianthrope (born with the ability/trait); witches and shaman especially, can be very talented shapeshifters, but not posess the energy pattern of an animal in their Spirit and Mind permanently.

-hope I helped..

Elyon wrote:There is really no connection between vampires and "lycans" (shapeshifter, or even therianthrope is a more accurate term in my book, since lycanthrope defines only someone who has a wolf theriotype, e.g. can shapeshift only into a wolf, or use only energy of that specific type of animal). I am a natural shapeshifter, but am also a vampire, so the "conflict" is non-existant outside of the movies and stories. I suggest that the more experienced of you (if you believe in the connection or conflict between vampire and lycanthrope) verify this on the astral plane as well. you will see that there is no strong energy correspondance between the two.
-A therian is a person who has natural shapeshifting ability and the essence of a specific animal spirit/s amalgamated into their own Spirit. So, a vampire can also be this person, as one can gain this trait through various incarnations.

-As for shapeshifters; anyone with an ability to energetically shapeshift is called a shapeshifter. to be this they do not need to be a therianthrope (born with the ability/trait); witches and shaman especially, can be very talented shapeshifters, but not posess the energy pattern of an animal in their Spirit and Mind permanently.

-hope I helped..

I think you do have a few things slightly confused about the Asetian standpoint on this subject. One may be Otherkin and be Vampiric, but one may not be Otherkin and Asetian (from what I know). Lycan is simply a new-age term, Luis Marques used many new-age terms in the Asetian Bible to describe Ancient concepts and such, but only to create a greater familiarity with the idea he was portraying. There is no great detail delved into Otherkin, except for a few types shortly described, including Lycans, Draconians, and Keepers.

The problem you are running into is that you assume in your ideas a very "black and white" stance about Otherkin and Vampires. This is not the case with the Asetian philosophy, because one may be Vampiric and considered a Vampire, but not be Asetian. Vampire is merely a way to describe a heightened energy need from a being. Asetian is a description of a soul group which is greater than a Human or Otherkin's, because it functions best in perfect balance with the divine.

the terms used were vampire and lycan.. not asetian. I understand what an Asetian is considered to be, yet there is metaphysically nothing that would stop an Asetian being a type of shapeshifter. And also the things sadi about the aforementioned "Lycans" has no practical or occult standpoint anywhere. At least not in my experience; by which I do not mean interenet forums and such. And as I said previously: energetically, historically, genetically, astrally there is no link between these two, that would suggest any relationship as has been mentioned in what you have written.

Elyon,

No one mentioned that Vampires and Shapeshifters or Lycans have any metaphysical connection. What was described is that there are indeed confrontations and many disagreements between covens of Vampires and groups of Lycans. Just because you don't know about it, does not mean it does not exist, and some people who mentioned it are well experienced members of the community like Victor, where his experience and expertise doesn't surely come from internet forums and movies, but from decades of being an insider in the occult community.

Now you only said one thing right, and that is that nothing stops a Vampire, or an Asetian, to be a shapeshifter. But that is more than obvious, and even the Asetian Bible expresses precisely how the Asetians have the powers to shapeshift in the astral and adapt their energies, passing only what they wish to pass. It is a form of manipulation, and they are indeed the masters of manipulation and disguise.

You also mentioned that a Vampire may gain this trait (being a Vampire) through incarnations. How is that "trait" gained, according to your beliefs?

Just curious, why would any of us discredit another based on the defintion of vampire or lycan? I would postulate that we have allowed popular culture (e.g the "Underworld" movie series) to influence our thinking. Are we not letting the crowd dictate who we are, rather than we dictating who the crowd is? Do we yield control to the crowd over who and what we are, instead of being what we are?

And really, does an Asetian truly fear a Sethian or lycan?

Jonathan wrote:

You also mentioned that a Vampire may gain this trait (being a Vampire) through incarnations. How is that "trait" gained, according to your beliefs?

I wasn't refering to one being a vampire, but one being a therian: e.g. a shaman who works intensively with (shapeshifts into) an animal spirit, she could eventually merge with it and from that incarnation onwards have traits of the so called therianthrope..

I didn't say that the conflicts are impossible, that certain groups of vampires didn't clash with a group of shifters, for one reason or another. Somehow I highly doubt there is a grand scale animosity between the two (speaking from personal experience, and not saying that someone, Victor for example, couldn't have a different experience in the matter). But since both have predatorial instincts (providing the shifter has a predatory theriotype) I see how there can be friction in that regard.

Also, that part about 'Lycans' being brutes, lousier at energy manipulation and magick -he couldn't be more wrong (again speaking from my exp., since it's the only one I have)- even though I've met some shapeshifters who have poor magickal ability, and they're very unskilled at controling their energy beyond the shapeshifting part; the majority was exceptionally talented and very aware of the most delicate energy weaves.

Phoenix wrote:Just curious, why would any of us discredit another based on the defintion of vampire or lycan? I would postulate that we have allowed popular culture (e.g the "Underworld" movie series) to influence our thinking. Are we not letting the crowd dictate who we are, rather than we dictating who the crowd is? Do we yield control to the crowd over who and what we are, instead of being what we are?

And really, does an Asetian truly fear a Sethian or lycan?

I feel that an Asetian does not truly fear anything, because if anything, they can embody fear itself to become a powerful changing force. I assume that it is likely for an Asetian to have fears before awakening, but afterward, no, an Asetian is likely cautious but fearless.

Phoenix wrote:Just curious, why would any of us discredit another based on the defintion of vampire or lycan? I would postulate that we have allowed popular culture (e.g the "Underworld" movie series) to influence our thinking. Are we not letting the crowd dictate who we are, rather than we dictating who the crowd is? Do we yield control to the crowd over who and what we are, instead of being what we are?

And really, does an Asetian truly fear a Sethian or lycan?

A Lycan wouldn't stand a chance in any metaphysical or magickal confrontation with an Asetian. However we must remember that they are also incarnated beings, in human bodies... and in terms of physical power, a Lycan could be a danger to both a Sethian and an Asetian. They are much more physical creatures, unlike the Sethians and the Asetians that are beings of pure metaphysics, much more ethereal and less attached to their bodies, and by so having weaker strength and physical bodies.

Jonathan wrote:A Lycan wouldn't stand a chance in any metaphysical or magickal confrontation with an Asetian. However we must remember that they are also incarnated beings, in human bodies... and in terms of physical power, a Lycan could be a danger to both a Sethian and an Asetian. They are much more physical creatures, unlike the Sethians and the Asetians that are beings of pure metaphysics, much more ethereal and less attached to their bodies, and by so having weaker strength and physical bodies.

I cannot agree more with Jonathan. However, not all Asetians are most powerful at metaphysical protection than physical defense. Viperines, for example, with the right state of Mind and Will, could bring any being of energy to its knees, though on the other hand, they are physically delicate. Guardians, however, can be quite strong physically, again with the right mind and Will. Concubines... I see them falling between in this scale of strength. Perhaps a bit closer to the Viperine lineage than to the Guardian.

Aghrab

i had a friend lycan,he tell me that a vampire love the lycan for the good blood,but is surely is a fake lol

Isph wrote:i had a friend lycan,he tell me that a vampire love the lycan for the good blood,but is surely is a fake lol

Yes, seems most likely...

I must say, i found ths article and it's replies very interesting. i'm not going to try to say whether anyone was right or wrong, it isn't my place. Though some of you had some very valid points.

For exampe: I know one Lycan (werewolf) who caims he's a shadow wolf, he also claims he's very powerful and better than everybody else. He claims to get stronger an stronger, but he has never been able to help me or others that I know who know him. I do know he has a great deal of energy.

Another example: i do know of a pack, but when i confronted them and asked them, they neither confirmed nor denied it. They kepted quiet. These ones however are very repectful, playful, overly protective and carry a pack mentality. They have great energy.

This group loves uncondtionally, protects those they love and are a great deal of fun. They have no prejudiace. It doesn't seem to bother them that i carry no wolf traits like my husband does as they pointed out. They seem to love me anyway. So i have to agree with a point stated earlier that there may not even be a conflict between Vampires and Lycans. Unless the pack I run around with just simply doesn't care as I don't either.

As i teach the children I work with and my own- "Be kind to one another and love thy neighbor."

I think confrontations between Vampire and Therian are probably rare. I don't personally know any right now, but in the past i have found them to be fun.
From what i can tell they first started appearing in Europe are later in the Americas around the dark ages (early middle ages, 5th-10th century).
Fights would mostly break out over either a particular terroritory or if either party expressed who was better than who etc.

"I had a chat with my Lycan friend, and he told me what he knew. First of all, he took extreme offense to the comment that Lycans are unorganized"

The concept that "Lycans" or werewolves are disorganized is actually a historically inaccurate statement.

The Goths (a germanic tribe) and Old Norse people actually had a trained group of soldiers known as the Ulfhednar which literally translated to "wolf changers". Even the word Werewolf is derived from the Old Norse word Verulfr. They had berserker ability and could enter the mindset of a wolf. This mindset is a complex one. For starters, the wolf mindset is firmly rooted in the concept of teamwork, but also of great ferocity in the face of danger. These people also tapped in the wolves great endurance and strength as well. The Ulfhednar also had certain powers associated with their condition...they had to project their hamr (astral body) into the Otherworld as well as others dreams in wolf-form.

I believe that there are deeper reasons behind the literary conflict between Werewolves and Vampires. This can be traced back to the myth of the Fenris Wolf (Similar to the Lycan) devouring Woden (Similar to the Vampire) who is most vampire like. There may of also of been conflicts between the Heruli who were Warrior-Poetic-Magicians (as well as the main force behind the Wodanic Cult) and the Ulfhednar, and the Myth of Fenrir devouring Wodan may be a reflection of this.

The werewolf-like Ulfhednar -historically speaking- were subserviant to the Wizards (=Vampires) who were dedicated to Wodan, the god of Death, War, and Magic. The Myth of Tyr binding Fenrir and putting a sword-prop in his mouth is connected to actual magic that was used to control the Ulfhednar / Werewolves where wracking pain would be delivered to the roof of the mouth should they decide to turn against the Wizards or the rest of society, much in the same way the Lycans in the movie Underworld were controlled with special collars. This reflects something much older and deeper...from a literal Gothic (=Germanic / Northern European) past.

Warm Regards,
Valdimar

some texts about werewolves, This book is called The Book of Werewolves : http://www.sacred-texts.com/goth/bow/index.htm

quote from sacred-texts.com :

A book I published in 1865 , The Book of Werewolves that has long been out of print. In it its collected all the stories you could find of transformation into wolves,. In fact it is apparently a universal belief that certain persons
have the faculty of assuming a bestial form at pleasure.

Herodotus says: "It seems that the Neuri are sorcerers, if
one may believe the Scythians and the Greeks established in Scythia; for
each Neurian changes himself, once in the year, into the form of a
wolf, and he continues in that form for several days, after which he
resumes his former state."

Ovid tells the story, in his Metamorphoses, of
Lycaon, King of Arcadia, who, entertaining Jupiter one day, set before
him a hash of human flesh to prove his omniscience, whereupon the god
transformed him into a wolf.

Pliny related that on the festival of Jupiter, Lycaeus, one
of the family of Antaeus, was selected by lot, and conducted to the
brink of the Arcadian lake. He then hung his clothes on a tree and
plunged into the water, whereupon he was transformed into a wolf. Nine
years after, if he had not tasted human flesh, he was at liberty to swim
back and resume his former shape, which had in the meantime become
aged, as though he had worn it for nine years.

This outtake is from the book body of man :http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/bof/bof03.htm

You can also find werewolves in Jewish folklore.

There are also something about wolves in Indian tribe folklore, but that's not specific wolves, it can be all kinds of animals, like a part of your spirit is an animal.

So wolves in it self have deep roots in myth as well.

Sincerely Divine 277

My boifriend is a werecat and we get along extremely well so in our case i would say we are very peaceful

Interesting theories and comments here..
I've just recently joined this intriguing forum, in hope i should find other's even similar to my kind.. And look! they are everywhere!
I say this in upmost respect, of course. So, hello all!

Now, onto the subject at hand. I did some research onto this sometime back, maybe a year or two ago, and i ended up discovering a religion of spiritual werewolves called The Werewolf Cathedral. Needless to say, i was skeptic upon viewing their website and such, and being a vampire it almost felt slightly awkward..
However, i held back any haste and ignorance i may have had, and took some deep rational thought into their explanations and viewpoints. Eventually, i decided to have a conversation with the leader of the religion over his youtube channel, i had simply asked him to explain his opinion of the constant hatred between vampires and werewolves. He couldn't understand why a vampire would be interested in asking him of all people about this matter, but reassuringly, he posted a (now nowhere to be seen) page up on his website.

It was basically a massive smack in the face..
He said that wolves stood over vampires in just about every way, and that we are of a "lower kin", an undeveloped version of the full blood wolf in spiritual terms. He also claims that werewolves and vampires were created from the same bloodline, but vampires showed too much independence/ignorance to stay as wolves.

Bugs me.. It's no wonder we don't exactly "get along" with werewolves with that kind of outlook and attitude towards us..
Anyway.. I'm from an occult order quite similar to the Aset Ka, however, i am restricted to say anything about the order without permission, so i will say nothing further other than "Praise the temple."

My view on this is, werewolves are, in astral form, wolves, who contain a great potential of lifeforce and energy, most probably accumulated from the energetic combinations within their aurora. Perhaps they were able to gain access to the Akashic records at a time of early appearance.. But i would say vampires did that beforehand. It all seems quite complex, and at times, difficult to understand and comprehend.. but it's possible.

Finally, do any of you guys here think it may indeed be possible to find a supply of lifeforce other than humans?
I mean in a sense of an extensive source, one that's somewhat infinite, or constantly regenerates?
Because if it is, could werewolves have this naturally tapped into their bloodline? Perhaps redirected to the physical abstract of their form, while vampires received a higher amount directed to their astral?

Hmm.. Just my thoughts.

Em Hotep, Akhkharu. Welcome here.
I must confess that I have no kind of knowledge related to werewolves and all that was said here, I liked very much of what Victor said.

However, I was interested in something you said.. If I may ask, what are the similarities that your Order has with the AK?

Ankkharu, I am sorry to go off-topic here. I would like to respectfully ask you a couple of questions.

It was quite some time ago that I stumbled upon the "Temple of the Vampire" website. As far as I saw, it is a website that promises access to immortality and the dark arts, and to no less than becoming a vampire, for $75 per trimester plus the price of all of the books, programs, courses, jewellery and so on that are offered. The most intriguing of all these commercially available opportunities is the so-called "nightside connection".

To quote some of the text on the website:

The Nightside Connection enables you to tap into the wisdom, guidance, and skills of the truly advanced Vampire. This esoteric Connection is the source of power that makes the Temple completely unique.

Only through this Temple can this Connection be made. Here is why.

When you receive an authorized copy of Temple literature from us you are obtaining more than just a book with instructions. You are also establishing an esoteric Nightside Connection which can permit those instructions to work for you.

Nightside Vampirism is not merely absorbing Lifeforce, the esoteric energy of life that all living things radiate. Vampirism is much more than just taking in more Lifeforce from others. That is a common ability.


That means that by purchasing a number of books you can buy yourself access to a source of wisdom where, apparently, higher beings will guide you on your way to darkness.

As I never did purchase a membership nor bought any of the books, nor tried to achieve a nightside connection. So maybe I am really missing out on the whole point.

Since you are displaying a full-colored signature from the Vampire Temple, I am wondering if you could kindly explain to us why you think this institution can be taken in any way seriously.

Thank you