Lycans and Vampires?

Lightseeker: You need to be a wizard with many women vampires naked in a pool. This is the secret of Victor.

Stalker,

We must be twins! That was going to be my reply! LOL!

Lightseeker, I have two questions for you. Why are you seeking something call shape shifting on the astral in which both forms are in a predatory imagine?

Why are you self-defeating in you posts? When you tell yourself the term never, can't happen, won't happen to me....it won't! What you are doing is setting up limitations for yourself in which you will have to over come.

I suppose I do have a third question now that I got two out. Why are you seeking the experience of another and not your own?

Stalker wrote:Lightseeker: You need to be a wizard with many women vampires naked in a pool. This is the secret of Victor.

Victor is a major asset within this forum in my opinion.
His pool is as well.

witchmark wrote:

Lightseeker, I have two questions for you. Why are you seeking something call shape shifting on the astral in which both forms are in a predatory imagine?

Why are you self-defeating in you posts? When you tell yourself the term never, can't happen, won't happen to me....it won't! What you are doing is setting up limitations for yourself in which you will have to over come.

I suppose I do have a third question now that I got two out. Why are you seeking the experience of another and not your own?

I think maybe I should attempt to respond to your questions as far as I understand them:
1.) I don't seek shape-shifting on the astral at the moment, I am merely interested in learning more about it and comparing different methods and traditions. I DID attempt (sucessfully) to shape-shift a longer time ago using the "initiatory" music of Radio Werewolf's "The Fiery Summons" cassette. I experienced the results as being quite.....unsettling and perhaps even a bit scary so I decided it is better (as with all occult topics) to first familiarize onself with the theories of certain things as they are presented in various traditions before attempting serious (ritual) work.

2.) I don't see myself as self-defeating. However, I do believe it's better to see your limitations than to talk yourself into something you aren't or pretending you can do everything. Just look at the whole occult and spiritual field: How many self-proclaimed Grand Masters, Magi, "Vampire Kings" etc. are running around out there? But how many can really do what they proclaim they can.

3.) I fully realise that all spiritual growth can only be achieved through personal experience. However, I believe a forum such as this is the right place to share experiences and get more information on different traditions that others here might be more familiar with than I am. Why do you consider this as being something negative? If someone doesn't ask questions and look at the experiences of others how can he build a basis from which he can embark out to make experiences of his own?

Perhaps it is the nature of your questions that I responded to.

Reading material is a wonderful thing. I am sure you would agree. However, taking things to the next level is where the work does come in. There are many many more arm chair magicians out there than delusional people where the occult world is concerned. That is my opinion and one I am entitled to. You do not need to share it.

As far as shape shifting on the astral goes....my recommendation is to learn first how to OBE. After that, then comes the shifting. One really should learn to walk before they run.

You wrote as if it you were self-defeating. That is the reason I brought it up. Sometimes we say things unconsciously and really do not realize it. That was my concern here....that you may not be aware of it. I have met many who held tight to their limited world only wanting it to change. The trick is to allow it to.....getting rid of limitations.

I do hope you understand that I was making a full attempt at helping you rather than brow beat you.

Please excuse me but it is this thread that drew my attention to this site in general because not but a week ago I realized one thing, I don't know my history as to being a Therian and where others such as myself originated from. I am assuming it would be much harder to get written materials on the history of Lycans or Therians all across the board, due to the lack of a community as intertwined as the Vampyre community. There is also the fact that there have been no official way of keeping records on this over the centuries, well until the internet but that is not much help in finding the information I desire. It is my opinion to get a better understanding of my life as it is I must find the origins of what I am.

Again please excuse me for rambling on like a mad man but it would just help finding the truth. I am almost jealous of Vampyres to be honest, their history is so much more clear cut than ours and they have records and had scribes or scholars of some sort to record and preserve, Though we may not be organized as a Community I would like to specify that packs usually are very organized and have a set hierarchy that there is no bending. And with an animalistic nature we have hurt ourselves by not taking the simple time to write.

So anyone that can help it would be much appreciated, no I don't belong to a pack I am solitary. It is this detail as well that makes gathering information all that more difficult.

You're on a vampire forum asking for solid information on Lycan/Therian history?
I'm sorry I don't want to come off as rude and you're welcome here being Therian, Vampire or just human like the most of us, it's just that I find it hard to believe that most here will be able to help you with that history detail. On the other hand some scholars around might be able to help, not sure. Some may know bits but I'm not sure that would be of much help or even if they are willing to share it at this point. I do wish to welcome you to the community and if you have the time please go on the Off Topic section to make a proper introduction. Thanks!

I forgot to mention another thought, it is highly possible that orders such as the Aset Ka have access to the information you seek and maybe even documented history of most otherkin out there and all the spiritual interpretations, but please keep in mind that most of us here don't have access to that information or the Aset Ka.

I have a question, Is it true that vampires in olden times treated lycans as slaves? I am simply asking what some of your opinions would be to this thought.

I know you don't have much on this type of history, but I have tried to look it up online and not much is said about it.

You have called yourself a lycan when you entered.  If that were the case, would you not know the answer? For me, I would just call myself curious in asking this and that would mean I fall into the same category as you in asking the question.  How can one declare themselves anything without knowing their own background?  I am confused here.  Jonathan  already mentioned that it is highly unlikely that one can be a vampire and a lycan combination.  Combine that combination with a title of a witch and I could be greatly confused.  But a couple here have already considered that I am very much confused as I can't possibly agree with their assessment of themselves.  I am very bad. But I am asking in order that I might learn something new.

Raven Kyles wrote:I have a question, Is it true that vampires in olden times treated lycans as slaves? I am simply asking what some of your opinions would be to this thought.

I highly doubt that there was ever a case where this occurred, mostly because the manner in which you are thinking of a lycan, meaning a human capable of transforming into a wolf or hybridized man/wolf combination is pretty much impossible (I will explain the physics/biology that I feel supports this, if asked). If it has occurred, it has not been documented by modern science. Now, in a different regard, there are therians (and many of them) which people can mistake for "lycans" but they aren't very comparable.

But I am asking in order that I might learn something new.

I approve Maxx.

oh good...Uncle Chuckie and I are so glad we have been accepted. We have been waiting for 24 hours.

Maxx wrote:oh good...Uncle Chuckie and I are so glad we have been accepted.  We have been waiting for 24 hours.

Umm... okay?

yes. based on your psionics statement I assumed that you had never heard of Uncle Chuckie. I can say I have seen the first hand effects of a life that was removed.

I am sorry if I confused anyone. I read the post in Vampires and I think I understand my own answer that was already there. Some would not know their own history because in most cases they would be raised by humans.

But sorry for the long wait in responding. What I meant in hybrid was simply vampire and wolf, not vampire with a lycan mix. Sorry for the confusion. I will have to think about my posts before I make them. I wish there was an edit option. :-(

There seems to be a confusion on the topic of Lycans and their origin in general, though there are many ideas, it would be simple to believe they came from perhaps a primal deity? Lycans don't actually transform metaphysically, since they have a primal nature and are much different from the classy vampire, of course their were fights, being those of anyone who is old enough to vouch for the bloodshed, much like their "natural" counterpart the wolf, being otherkin but still naturally primal, some create hierarchies A.K.A. packs, and some don't, lone wolfs if you will. The reason being that they wouldn't want to organize their history, even though some wanted to, is because they don't care, in their mind there is no need to document such things, and to just live. That is why there is a fog around the topic, it's because all the information is mostly second hand and from tales and folklore.

Well, if one necroposts in something of interest, might as well jump the bandwagon, eh?

Before I respond to the quoted comment, I'd like to explain where I'm coming from with this (and of course everyone will have their own opinions, ideas, and judgments and are entitled to such, with respect).

I identify as Vampire and Otherkin. My personal definition of "vampire" is not in line with the Asetian definition or other Occult or Spiritual groups, and rooted, at first with the "subculture" and identity group that is the Vampire Community. I also come from the Otherkin and Therian subculture and community (no, not from Tumblr, thank goodness *shivers*). I define Otherkin as any human-bodied individual who identifies on some level as nonhuman. I believe Therian is the same as Otherkin, except specifically related to Earthly animals/types extinct and extant.

I am a vampire who feels a need to feed on metaphysical and life energies. I believe that my vampirism does not make, nor mean, that I am nonhuman in any way. I identify as a wolf, I also identify as clado-feline (which may be more difficult to wrap one's head around. Clado being derived from the taxonomic "clade", and Feline being, well the taxonomic Family of related species). I am nonhuman, I believe, due to my soul, and psychologically, the soul effects my mind.

hikaze wrote:There seems to be a confusion on the topic of Lycans and their origin in general, though there are many ideas, it would be simple to believe they came from perhaps a primal deity? Lycans don't actually transform metaphysically, since they have a primal nature and are much different from the classy vampire, of course their were fights, being those of anyone who is old enough to vouch for the bloodshed, much like their "natural" counterpart the wolf, being otherkin but still naturally primal, some create hierarchies A.K.A. packs, and some don't, lone wolfs if you will. The reason being that they wouldn't want to organize their history, even though some wanted to, is because they don't care, in their mind there is no need to document such things, and to just live. That is why there is a fog around the topic, it's because all the information is mostly second hand and from tales and folklore.

I did not come from a deity, primordial or otherwise. I mean, it's possible if one believe in an intelligent creator of sorts, but I'm more agnostic in that respect, and my beliefs lead to something a bit off in left field. How I became what I am, spiritually speaking, I don't know. I believe that various incarnations as well as experiences pre-carnation and between incarnations are likely factors if I simply didn't come to be as-is.

Not all Otherkin/Therians (sometimes called Weres, Lycans, etc.) shift, but many (arguably a majority) do. Those who don't shift (metaphysically and otherwise) don't because they are always their animal. That's not to say that, when I don't experience a shift, I'm not what I am, I'm just simply not shifted. I believe my soul is ultimately formless, though many Otherkin/Therians believe they exist in their animal/creature forms in the spiritual/metaphysical (etheric?) realm. I've generally mulled the idea of this not being my case.

The only fights I am involved in are arguments with fluff (confused, stubborn, fledglings or willfully ignorant posers and trolls) or arrogant trolls and elitists. There's no blood shed (perhaps I'm not old enough?) I hold no ill-will towards any Vampires, Otherkin or their offshoots (branches; for example, "Vampires" may include the VC, Aset Ka, etc. As well, "Otherkin" may include Therians, Draconity and unicorn groups as they developed, historically seperate from Otherkin as far as subcultures go).

The natural counterpart of werewolves and "lycans", the wolf, does not naturally form "hierarchies" in the wild. The do so only in captivity out of necessity or on the rare occasion that habitat supports them and the pack is able to grow to a family (and mates) of more than the average [less than] 10 individuals. Wolves in the wild are family units, with a breeding pair and their pups. Adolescent wolves/those of reproductive maturity, generally leave or are kicked out of the pack (how many parents would love to kick out their independent and rebellious teens?) to seek out a mate of their own and start their own pack. This information was observed, and deemed "fact" as of the early 2000s and was brought to light by the very same biologists who observed only captive packs, then mistakenly reported pack dominance hierarchy as the standard for all wolves, which was a mistake that lives on unfortunately.

Dominance heirarchy is more natural and standard to primate groups and other species, not so much wolves.

There is plenty of recorded history regaring Otherkin, Therians and Werewolves, at least the first two, it's all about finding the right sources.

A.Nightside wrote:Well, if one necroposts in something of interest, might as well jump the bandwagon, eh?

Before I respond to the quoted comment, I'd like to explain where I'm coming from with this (and of course everyone will have their own opinions, ideas, and judgments and are entitled to such, with respect).

I identify as Vampire and Otherkin. My personal definition of "vampire" is not in line with the Asetian definition or other Occult or Spiritual groups, and rooted, at first with the "subculture" and identity group that is the Vampire Community. I also come from the Otherkin and Therian subculture and community (no, not from Tumblr, thank goodness *shivers*). I define Otherkin as any human-bodied individual who identifies on some level as nonhuman. I believe Therian is the same as Otherkin, except specifically related to Earthly animals/types extinct and extant.

I am a vampire who feels a need to feed on metaphysical and life energies. I believe that my vampirism does not make, nor mean, that I am nonhuman in any way. I identify as a wolf, I also identify as clado-feline (which may be more difficult to wrap one's head around. Clado being derived from the taxonomic "clade", and Feline being, well the taxonomic Family of related species). I am nonhuman, I believe, due to my soul, and psychologically, the soul effects my mind.

hikaze wrote:There seems to be a confusion on the topic of Lycans and their origin in general, though there are many ideas, it would be simple to believe they came from perhaps a primal deity? Lycans don't actually transform metaphysically, since they have a primal nature and are much different from the classy vampire, of course their were fights, being those of anyone who is old enough to vouch for the bloodshed, much like their "natural" counterpart the wolf, being otherkin but still naturally primal, some create hierarchies A.K.A. packs, and some don't, lone wolfs if you will. The reason being that they wouldn't want to organize their history, even though some wanted to, is because they don't care, in their mind there is no need to document such things, and to just live. That is why there is a fog around the topic, it's because all the information is mostly second hand and from tales and folklore.

I did not come from a deity, primordial or otherwise. I mean, it's possible if one believe in an intelligent creator of sorts, but I'm more agnostic in that respect, and my beliefs lead to something a bit off in left field. How I became what I am, spiritually speaking, I don't know. I believe that various incarnations as well as experiences pre-carnation and between incarnations are likely factors if I simply didn't come to be as-is.

Not all Otherkin/Therians (sometimes called Weres, Lycans, etc.) shift, but many (arguably a majority) do. Those who don't shift (metaphysically and otherwise) don't because they are always their animal. That's not to say that, when I don't experience a shift, I'm not what I am, I'm just simply not shifted. I believe my soul is ultimately formless, though many Otherkin/Therians believe they exist in their animal/creature forms in the spiritual/metaphysical (etheric?) realm. I've generally mulled the idea of this not being my case.

The only fights I am involved in are arguments with fluff (confused, stubborn, fledglings or willfully ignorant posers and trolls) or arrogant trolls and elitists. There's no blood shed (perhaps I'm not old enough?) I hold no ill-will towards any Vampires, Otherkin or their offshoots (branches; for example, "Vampires" may include the VC, Aset Ka, etc. As well, "Otherkin" may include Therians, Draconity and unicorn groups as they developed, historically seperate from Otherkin as far as subcultures go).

The natural counterpart of werewolves and "lycans", the wolf, does not naturally form "hierarchies" in the wild. The do so only in captivity out of necessity or on the rare occasion that habitat supports them and the pack is able to grow to a family (and mates) of more than the average [less than] 10 individuals. Wolves in the wild are family units, with a breeding pair and their pups. Adolescent wolves/those of reproductive maturity, generally leave or are kicked out of the pack (how many parents would love to kick out their independent and rebellious teens?) to seek out a mate of their own and start their own pack. This information was observed, and deemed "fact" as of the early 2000s and was brought to light by the very same biologists who observed only captive packs, then mistakenly reported pack dominance hierarchy as the standard for all wolves, which was a mistake that lives on unfortunately.

Dominance heirarchy is more natural and standard to primate groups and other species, not so much wolves.

There is plenty of recorded history regaring Otherkin, Therians and Werewolves, at least the first two, it's all about finding the right sources.

You made good points for your post, I want to reference back to the part of my comment where I said it could be the case that most easily accessible information is second hand. I also identify as an Other-kin, and I feel there may be more to what people see as there form in terms of their spirit, maybe that's completely based on their belief and how they self form maybe even before manifestation, but it would be hard to prove or spread the concept of what actually happens on other planes and off materialized planes if you have no recollection of those events, especially since most religions poke on the topic and have their own ideas, making hard for anyone developing in a religious family or group to form their own opinion without bias. And it's the kind of thing that most only experience after death or what not. Again being a "lone wolf" I can only say based on assumption that these ideas maybe the case, so they are only ideas.
But good job on the post.

hikaze wrote:

You made good points for your post, I want to reference back to the part of my comment where I said it could be the case that most easily accessible information is second hand. I also identify as an Otherkin, and I feel there may be more to what people see as their form in terms of their spirit, maybe that's completely based on their belief and how they self-form maybe even before manifestation, but it would be hard to prove or spread the concept of what actually happens on other planes and off materialized planes if you have no recollection of those events, especially since most religions poke on the topic and have their own ideas, making hard for anyone developing in a religious family or group to form their own opinion without bias. And it's the kind of thing that most only experience after death or what not. Again being a "lone wolf" I can only say based on assumption that these ideas maybe the case, so they are only ideas.
But good job on the post.

What sort of information would be considered more "first hand" and reliable? - sorry, I want to continue the conversation but exhaustion and brain fog has set in at this point so I'm having a more difficult time following simple things I should already understand.

A majority of my experiences regarding metaphysics come naturally for me. All of my projections (whether it be dream world, astral, bi location, etc.) have been involuntary and while I was sleeping. Because of this, of course I am never sure if what I observe is "real" or "legitimate" and not just some kind of wishful thinking or the result of an overactive imagination. However, as difficult it is to explain, I feel it. Now, I generally don't blindly trust perception. The human mind is powerful and dangerous to one's self. I don't hold my beliefs like flights of fantasy. These are ideas, gumptions, feelings, concepts that I either had from as early in my life as I can remember, or developed over time. While research and discussion with peers has largely proved fruitless, these "feelings" are such I've not been able to shake, no matter how much I've tried to dismiss or rationalize them.

You're right, I can't prove it to anyone, but there's no longer a need to prove it to myself. I tried, I considered, I introspected, I tried ignoring it, dismissing it, letting it go. But what is true, will always be, whether we acknowledge and label it or not, and at this point, what I know what I am.

*Though I am always open to learning. I accept that I could always be wrong, I accept that I could be mistaken, and that numerous other potential possibilities exist.

It's always good to have an open mind, and when it comes to information becoming first hand is from someones experience and not from person to person to others unless it is factual which I understand the confusion from, what I was saying is that the reason that most people are misinformed is a combination of both non-factual information and arrogance/bias, neither of which i believe you to have.

Continue. I enjoy reading others' posts where one can display their thoughts in a visible style and where that can read in a continuous manner.

can be read

? I don't quite understand whether that was sarcasm or you were being serious about something